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[TS]AMD unveils revolutionary 'Mantle' API to optimize GPU performance - Page 12

post #111 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

They are locking down the market for PC gamers? Please. Where are they going to go, Linux?
yes, valve literally just announced a Linux based gaming oriented os. Gaming is also one of the major reasons many people (at home not in the workplace) stay with windows; other reasons being other windows exclusive software that doesn't run well in wine, such parts of the Adobe Creative suite.
Edited by Eggs and bacon - 9/26/13 at 12:49am
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post #112 of 249
well time to get the 7970 when bf4 comes out biggrin.gif
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post #113 of 249
Everyone take a step back. Without any numbers we wont really know if this is a better API than Dx or OGL. I think everyone is getting too exited for something that isn't even proven to be faster than the current APIs.
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post #114 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Killer View Post

Everyone take a step back. Without any numbers we wont really know if this is a better API than Dx or OGL. I think everyone is getting too exited for something that isn't even proven to be faster than the current APIs.

I believe it's definitely faster unless they are incompetent due to the very nature of being hardware-specific. Though my pet peeve is that people seem to imply APIs like OpenGL don't already try to keep the CPU out of the loop for the last 20 years.
Edited by fateswarm - 9/26/13 at 12:55am
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post #115 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggs and bacon View Post

yes, valve literally just announced a Linux based gaming oriented os.

Yes, and I'm sure Microsoft is terrified of how many people are going to abandon Windows to use that as their sole computer. DirectX is not a reason people buy Windows, and Mantle isn't going to be a reason for people to abandon Windows.
Edited by Forceman - 9/26/13 at 12:55am
post #116 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I have noticed a lot people are unaware of the nature of APIs like OpenGL. I do know that a hardware-specialized API can go even further on this, but I just want to expose the extend the "CPU is not getting in the way" already:

  • OpenGL 1.1's feature: EXT_texture_object: Offload your textures on the graphics card
  • OpenGL 1.5's most prominent feature: ARB_vertex_buffer_object, Offload your geometry on the card
  • 2.0: Revolutionary feature: ARB_shader_objects: Offload 3d programming logic on the card (shaders aren't just "shading" as the name wrongly implies, they are whole programs that lately have reached extreme complexity)
  • 2.1: ARB_pixel_buffer_object: Guess what, let's offload some more, this time even more specialized image data
  • 3.0: APPLE_vertex_array_object: Let's not even tell it what to render, offload whole lists of data in arrays (I simplified it crudely, I know).


and it goes on and on and on like this

  • 4.0: ARB_tesselation_shader: Let's not even send the vertices in a ready-made form, split them in shapes on the card using programs (the shaders mentioned above?), offload

and it goes on and on like this. I didn't even touch the surface and I wasn't too accurate.

But the truth of the matter is, graphics cards are already offloaded upon tons of what a game does, and that's the reason your game takes a lot of time to load, for most of the time while you are playing, the main system does very little.

Hence, this API, or any specialized hardware API while it could of course have an even lower level approach, it's not something "new" that it doesn't want the CPU to communicate with it.

I suspect the whole situation exists mainly because the PCI-E bus is extremely slow compared to VRAM<->GPU intercommunication, or it could be an elaborate scheme of GPU makers.

OpenGL has always been more efficient than DirectX, and many equivalent features which currently DirectX10/10.1/11 support have already been in OpenGL a few versions ago. I remember when I asked in PCSX2 forum that why can OpenGL not run PS2 emulator more efficiently than DirectX. They replied Microsoft crippled down OpenGL in Windows as OpenGL is somewhat depend on Windows's d3D.

AMD is not forcing anyone to adopt GCN. They just now really have a solution of what we've been suffering for years by huge overhead of DirectX. This was clearly not about showing off to Nvidia that we have better solution, because its open source. They are the hardware/driver developers who are telling people that Mantle enables 9x more draw calls per second than other APIs by reducing CPU overhead. This might be a perfect solution to many of us who suffer bottleneck due to lower CPU core frequency. And as they have developed this API they are providing with their GPU. Also developers will never drop DX, not at least untill Nvidia either adopt Mantle or comes up with the same or more efficient API than DX.

But I think Nvidia has it. Nvidia has always been ahead one generation than AMD in OpenGL. It has been proven many times OpenGL is faster than DX. But then again most of us gamers have to be adopting Linux. I have no problem in going to Linux even though I don't know much about it. And if Mantle support will be on Linux. Both AMD's and Nvidia's users will gain from it.
Edited by sumitlian - 9/26/13 at 1:18am
    
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post #117 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Killer View Post

Everyone take a step back. Without any numbers we wont really know if this is a better API than Dx or OGL. I think everyone is getting too exited for something that isn't even proven to be faster than the current APIs.

I believe it's definitely faster unless they are incompetent due to the very nature of being hardware-specific. Though my pet peeve is that people seem to imply APIs like OpenGL don't already try to keep the CPU out of the loop for the last 20 years.

It can't be definite unless we see some benchmark numbers from third parties. I'm not gonna fall into the trap into thinking that this is some kind if silver bullet for graphical performance.

Question everything you see, demand evidence, stay skeptical.
Edited by Dream Killer - 9/26/13 at 1:13am
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post #118 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Killer View Post

Unless I see some numbers from third parties, I'm not gonna fall into the trap into thinking that this is some kind if silver bullet for graphical performance.

Question everything you see, demand evidence, stay skeptical.

Its not crap, its absolutely true. Its just developers haven't touched it because of DirectX monopoly by MS.
    
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post #119 of 249
I never said Mantle is crap. There are zero benchmarks comparing the APIs right now so it's still subject to scrutiny.
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post #120 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Killer View Post

I never said Mantle is crap. There are zero benchmarks comparing the APIs right now so it's still subject to scrutiny.

errrr....that reply was not in favor of Mantle. It was about OpenGL what fateswarm has shown to us.
    
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