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[MaximumPC]AMD: R9 290X Will Be "Much Faster Than Titan in Battlefield 4" - Page 19  

post #181 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

the unspoken advantage mantle will bring us, if it can deliver 20% boost in GCN card performance in games is this might be the step to take kaveri from sub 1080p gaming to valid 1080p gaming APU. that will be a coup d'etat for AMD.

You have to settle down with the short-term dreams, those are purely long-term plans. Even if Battlefield 4 has an advantage and if 2-3 other games have an advantage those results are meaningless financially to them, their goal is market domination (it doesn't have to be total, but considerable) and this does not happen in 6 months, and frankly I'd rather never happened, specialized hardware APIs should rather stay in consoles and the age of 'home computers' of the 80s and 90s with the Amigas and the Ataris, I'd rather have an open platform that already is quite low-level with OpenCL, OpenGL, etc. even if I lose 2% each time AMD has a specialized hardware that can use a specialized API that I don't even know if it exists next year.
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post #182 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

You have to remember that Mantle is technically open to anyone willing to use it. That means that Nvidia could easily take advantage of it as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if they already knew about this before the presentation and are already working to incorporate it into their cards.
Er, no. Not exactly.

Mantly isn't some new technology. It's a low-level API, just like the API that consoles use today. A low level API cuts out all the garbage that's required for a universal API like DX11. It does this by centering around a specific architecture. The architecture that Mantle centers around is GCN; Kepler couldn't be any more different than GCN. Nothing from Mantle can be taken advatange of by nVidia.
The reason AMD or nV haven't had their own low-level API's in the past is simple: no one is interested in restructuring a game so that it's compatible for every different architecture that people are making. Think about it; there's been Fermi, Kepler, GCN, VLIW 4, VLIW 5, and then whatever Intel's architectures were just over the last few years. It's bad enough that console developers need to make a version for PS3's API, Xbox's API and then PC's API (Direct X.)
AMD, however, will now have GCN on PS4, Xbox One, and a very large portion of PC/Laptops. GCN will be the most commonly owned GPU architecture ever, and that is the only reason they can make Mantle work.

It's not a matter of Nvidia making their own version of Mantle, or licensing Mantle from AMD; it's a matter of owning 95% of the gaming hardware on the market.
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post #183 of 567
From what I can gather about AMD and Mantle....I suspect that there will be a huge amount of Xbox One games brought over to the PC. If developers are already using an AMD "low-level API' (aka Mantle) then there should be little effort to port games over to a PC platform that is also using an AMD "low-level API".
post #184 of 567
Look at this

AMD Product Manager Devon Nekechuck : the new card (R9 290X) will compete with the Titan and GTX 780 straight away, but “with Battlefield 4 running with Mantel, the card will be able to ridicule the Titan in terms of performance.

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/radeon-r9-290x-mantle-api-ridicule-titan-gpu-bf4/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=radeon-r9-290x-mantle-api-ridicule-titan-gpu-bf4
post #185 of 567
And I think you left out one other possible platform Steam OS.
post #186 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughterem View Post

And I think you left out one other possible platform Steam OS.

SteamOS is irrelevant. Probably will continue to be irrelevant even after release.
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post #187 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Well, Mantle could easily be the best low-level API for consoles. AMD would be stupid not to invest everything to make that a reality.

If this does become the case, then you could see Mantle being the API belonging to the 95% of gamers: console gamers.
The minority market will be PC, and a large portion of that minority will be GCN GPU owners who will be ready for a game with Mantle API already.
The real minority will be GPU's that can't take advantage of Mantle. Old AMD GPU's, Intel integrated, and nVidia.

First off consoles do not hold a 95% market share.

Secondly, at best, all that the Mantle API would do is work for FUTURE consoles. So you can't even consider the market share of current console gamers.

Further, since Mantle is still in its infant stages, and the NEXT generation of consoles is due out in less than 2 months, it would be a bloody miracle if Mantle made it in to the XBox One or PS4. Neither Sony or Microsoft have said ANYTHING about that, nor are they crazy enough to risk the launch of their multi-billion dollar platform on something so untested. This is ESPECIALLY true with the Xbox One. Unless Microsoft is TOTALLY STUPID, they wouldn't allow Mantle to be on the XBO, since it is painfully clear that Mantle is a clear and present danger to DirectX.

So basically that least Mantle to MAYBE be used in the generation of consoles AFTER this one ... in about 6 or more years from now.
post #188 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post

Thought it was an API that run natively? *shrug*
Well, it does, for games that are programmed in Mantle. If AMD has it's way, tha'tll be every console game from here on.

DirectX destroys GPU performance by being a universal API. It sacrifices the performance of your GPU so that developers can write code that'll work for every GPU architecture.
Mantle is the opposite. It's specific to GCN. Therefor, the game must be built around these Mantle instructions that are specifically for GCN GPU's, and nothing else.
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post #189 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

You have to remember that Mantle is technically open to anyone willing to use it. That means that Nvidia could easily take advantage of it as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if they already knew about this before the presentation and are already working to incorporate it into their cards.

I keep hearing this, but did AMD ever actually say that? I haven't seen any quotes to indicate that it is for anything other than GCN cards. There were some comments in a couple of the news articles to the effect of "it'll be open", but I never saw that attributed to AMD themselves. I guess we'll find out in November when they have that conference, but for now everything I've seen indicates it being AMD only.
post #190 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post

I've read the whole thread and trust me it was not easy on IE 7 (work). The guy I quoted makes the most sense, where many here miss the point when they express sentiment about being either for or against Mantle.

I'm for PC gaming not for AMD or nVidia. As PC gamers we have always desired one thing that consoles always had which is coding to metal. AMD, because of the next gen console win, has come out with Mantle. I'm sure if nVidia had won the contracts it would have come out with their own API solution as well.

People make me laugh when they say this Mantle will be only of use for 5% of the gaming crowd, ignoring comments from others that rightly state that between the consoles and PC crowd it will be more like 80% of the gaming community.

If you don't have CGN cards or have a liking for AMD well that is to bad. Here on OCN we seek out performance and it looks like Mantle might be the new next best thing. Either nVidia adapts or else, since whether you're a fan or not, AMD will ultimately reap the rewards as more neutral and nVidia fans flock to AMD to seek out that performance.

I'm a PC gamer first, not an AMD, Intel or an nVidia fanboy and will go where the performance is, period.

+1

OCN is about performance no? Letting fanboy mentality get in the way of development and performance seems strange to me. Everyone should be applauding (the promise of) more performance, if it tanks it tanks but we gave it a shot right. Personally it really doesn't matter where it comes from. Atm AMD have strategic muscles Nvidia simply does not have. Nvidia have some great products but in the bigger picture they are a one trick pony, a good one though. I too have the odd Stallman gene but in this case I am not too worried, there will always be fierce competition within the gaming space.
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