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[MaximumPC]AMD: R9 290X Will Be "Much Faster Than Titan in Battlefield 4" - Page 27  

post #261 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

However, it doesn't change the fact that Nvidia has kept that price despite the 7970 being $100 less now. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep that price even after the 280x is released. Nvidia is that arrogant and people will buy their cards for the name over value.

That's a totally different arguemnt, and one I agree with you on. But if Nvidia is making their sales targets at the higher price I don't see them changing strategies anytime soon. Maybe Mantle will finally change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Because it stands to reason that even their low in offering will perform on par if not better then higher tier nv parts do to mantle. Now that AMD now has the console market they truly can have a hand in how games are developed.

The problem is that it will be very game dependent. So you can get playable frame rates in a Mantle game with a 7870-equivalent, for example, but then get killed when you try to play a non-Mantle game. It's going to be like Dirt: Showdown on steroids, where the 290X (or the 290, which to me is the more compelling card) is able to beat the Titan in a Mantle game, but might be 5 or 10% behind a 780 in non-Mantle games. So do you buy for the Mantle games or the non-Mantle games? Adoption is going to be a big piece of this, and AMD developer relations and willingness to do training and assitance is going to be a big part of adoption. If they can get the engine makers onboard they'll probably have a winner, but if it ends up being just a few titles based off Frostbite then who knows.
Edited by Forceman - 9/26/13 at 1:35pm
post #262 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post

The difference is AMD is pricing the 280x at around the Used/low sale price of a 7970, while Nvidia priced the 770 well over the used and even new price of the 680 at the time.

No, the 680 was still selling for more than the 770. The 770 was faster and cheaper than the 680.

I do agree though, the 770 is due for a price drop.
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post #263 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

The problem is that it will be very game dependent. So you can get playable frame rates in a Mantle game with a 7870-equivalent, for example, but then get killed when you try to play a non-Mantle game. It's going to be like Dirt: Showdown on steroids, where the 290X (or the 290, which to me is the more compelling card) is able to beat the Titan in a Mantle game, but might be 5 or 10% behind a 780 in non-Mantle games. So do you buy for the Mantle games or the non-Mantle games? Adoption is going to be a big piece of this, and AMD developer relations and willingness to do training and assitance is going to be a big part of adoption. If they can get the engine makers onboard they'll probably have a winner, but if it ends up being just a few titles based off Frostbite then who knows.

Although I understand your concern the overall opinion is that we acknowledge and recognized the writing on the wall the moment it was announced that AMD hw would be used in both next gen consoles. So, it was assumed that AMD was going to find a way to capitalize on it...

How much convincing will it take most people to buy AMD if it shown that a R9 270X or similarly tiered GPU is on par with a 780 in BF4 (using mantle)? What if a R7 260X performed closed to a 780 in BF4 with mantle? How many other popular awaited games does mantle have to be in to show/convince the masses? IMO, not many...
Edited by EastCoast - 9/26/13 at 1:43pm
post #264 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

I didn't pay attention to the 770 release. If it was $100 less than the 680, that's cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

The 7950 is still a better buy than both this and the 7970. For $100 less and some OCing, you get 4 free games with 5-10% less performance.

^^ Straight from the 770 Reviews Thread. tongue.gif
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post #265 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

No, the 680 was still selling for more than the 770. The 770 was faster and cheaper than the 680.

I do agree though, the 770 is due for a price drop.

Alright, then if I remove 'and even new' my point is still valid and correct tongue.gif


edit: Either way, you're pretty much outside your mind if you think the 280x isn't very reasonably priced. It just is.
 
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post #266 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

This. If you didn't condone what Nvidia did, then how can you condone what AMD is doing? To the point of calling it amazing? The fact that Nidia artificially held the price of the 680 higher made the 770 look like a better deal by comparison (and I'm sure the 7970 list price is still closer to $400 than $300 so it is a price cut for AMD also) but the reality is that AMD is doing pretty much the exact same thing Nvidia did a few months ago. And that's not good for anyone because it allows them to make a new price point above the current one. If the 290 comes in at $450 and the 290X at $600, then we all lose out.

Yeah, but this kind of argument works both ways. The people who were defending Nvidia when they did this can't all of the sudden be outraged at AMD either...
post #267 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Although I understand your concern the overall opinion is that we acknowledge and recognized the writing on the wall the moment it was announced that AMD hw would be used in both next gen consoles. So, it was assumed that AMD was going to find a way to capitalize on it...

How much convincing will it take most people to buy AMD if it shown that a R9 270X or similarly tiered GPU is on par with a 780 in BF4 (using mantle)? What if a R7 260X performed closed to a 780 in BF4 with mantle? How many other popular awaited games does mantle have to be in to show/convince the masses? IMO, not many...

I don't know, the AMD cards already beat Nvidia in price/performance at every price point, but it's not like people are only buying AMD cards right now. And a lot of people play BF4, but that's not the only game people are going to buy cards for going forward. How far out are we from this showing up in other games anyway? BF4 is going to be December, but what's the next game after that? How long will it be until Mantle has a critical mass of games, and what is the competitive landscape going to be then? I think this will end up being a player more for the 20nm generation that it will for this one, especially with Mantle not being ready for the 290X/BF4 launch. So all the launch reviews are going to show non-Mantle performance, and those reviews have sticking power long after drivers and games have matured.
post #268 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

That's a totally different arguemnt, and one I agree with you on. But if Nvidia is making their sales targets at the higher price I don't see them changing strategies anytime soon. Maybe Mantle will finally change that.
Oh for sure. If they weren't selling cards they'd surely have lowered the price by now. That's the issue here - people buy for the name over value. They'd rather rip themselves off than do proper research and get free games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

The problem is that it will be very game dependent. So you can get playable frame rates in a Mantle game with a 7870-equivalent, for example, but then get killed when you try to play a non-Mantle game. It's going to be like Dirt: Showdown on steroids, where the 290X (or the 290, which to me is the more compelling card) is able to beat the Titan in a Mantle game, but might be 5 or 10% behind a 780 in non-Mantle games. So do you buy for the Mantle games or the non-Mantle games? Adoption is going to be a big piece of this, and AMD developer relations and willingness to do training and assitance is going to be a big part of adoption. If they can get the engine makers onboard they'll probably have a winner, but if it ends up being just a few titles based off Frostbite then who knows.
Mantle is for GCN which is in both next-gen consoles so it shouldn't be too difficult to code for it for multi-platform games. That I think is the key here - multi-platform games should benefit greatly from this.

PC only games are already coded with both Nvidia and AMD cards in mind, and I'm sure AMD will continue developing cards without taking Mantle into account. It's really the only true way to compete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post


^^ Straight from the 770 Reviews Thread. tongue.gif
Well there you go tongue.gif. I just completely forgot about it.

I still stand by what I said in that thread though. The 7950 is still king biggrin.gif.

I would have pulled the trigger for a 2nd 7950 if AMD announced BF4 as the next game in the Never Settle Bundle, but alas..
Edited by Yvese - 9/26/13 at 1:51pm
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post #269 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post


^^ Straight from the 770 Reviews Thread. tongue.gif


LOL...busted!
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post

Alright, then if I remove 'and even new' my point is still valid and correct tongue.gif


edit: Either way, you're pretty much outside your mind if you think the 280x isn't very reasonably priced. It just is.

No, the 280x is one hell of a deal, just like the 7950/7970 are right now. Go look at my posts history and you will find proof I have said so many times.
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post #270 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

LOL...busted!
No, the 280x is one hell of a deal, just like the 7950/7970 are right now. Go look at my posts history and you will find proof I have said so many times.


Lol, sry I should've made it more clear that I wasn't directing that at you.
 
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