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[MaximumPC]AMD: R9 290X Will Be "Much Faster Than Titan in Battlefield 4" - Page 30  

post #291 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Although I understand your concern the overall opinion is that we acknowledge and recognized the writing on the wall the moment it was announced that AMD hw would be used in both next gen consoles. So, it was assumed that AMD was going to find a way to capitalize on it...

How much convincing will it take most people to buy AMD if it shown that a R9 270X or similarly tiered GPU is on par with a 780 in BF4 (using mantle)? What if a R7 260X performed closed to a 780 in BF4 with mantle? How many other popular awaited games does mantle have to be in to show/convince the masses? IMO, not many...

If, and when it happens, as long as Mantle is not a one hit wonder, and 290 or 290x is not priced anywhere close to a 780, I would think that most people would be ecstatic.
Edited by provost - 9/26/13 at 2:45pm
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post #292 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I don't think he is speculating. These cards should launch with or around BF4 and I think it has already been mentioned that BF4 would not support mantle until December.

Did I hear someone say that?
Don't hold your breath on 50%. I would say a more accurate guess would be 20-25%.
With a low level API?

You think Direct X only creates a 20-25% performance hit?
I don't know if you're aware, but when RAM and and CPU are eliminated from the equation.. direct to hardware coding for a GPU takes performance from first gear to sixth. 50% is a modest, modest estimate.
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post #293 of 567
Is this Manta API a free software or you need to pay for it?
post #294 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regent Square View Post

Is this Manta API a free software or you need to pay for it?
Nothing has been said, other than it's "open."

Considering AMD stands to gain tremendously from widespread adoption of Mantle, it would make very little sense for them to charge developers for it.
Open source is the only thing that would make sense.
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post #295 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Exactly.

Mantle won't be ready for the BF4 launch, it won't be ready for the PS4 launch, it won't be ready (and most likely ever done for the XBO because Microsoft has been touting their closed standard DirectX for PC and consoles for years).

And yet people think that with the release of the 290X, AMD/BF4/Mantle is going to take over the world overnight?

Man, I'll have what a lot of the people here on this thread are taking. thumb.gif

there not taking anything there just completely mantle...









sorry had to redface.gif
post #296 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

With a low level API?

You think Direct X only creates a 20-25% performance hit?
I don't know if you're aware, but when RAM and and CPU are eliminated from the equation.. direct to hardware coding for a GPU takes performance from first gear to sixth. 50% is a modest, modest estimate.

If it's so dramatic a difference, why is the 7870+ equivalent PS4 going to be running games at 720p still?

Edit: and that's a serious question, not a veiled slam.
Edited by Forceman - 9/26/13 at 2:59pm
post #297 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

With a low level API?

You think Direct X only creates a 20-25% performance hit?
I don't know if you're aware, but when RAM and and CPU are eliminated from the equation.. direct to hardware coding for a GPU takes performance from first gear to sixth. 50% is a modest, modest estimate.

So then, am I to understand that BF4 could possibly jump from let's say 60FPS to 90+ FPS when on R9-290X when running under Mantle?

Let's just say I will have to see it to believe it. Not saying you are wrong, but I need proof.
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post #298 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I'm still really curious about the timeline. If the NDA is going to lift prior to the pre-order availability on the 3rd, then review sites are going to be needing the cards pretty much right now. I wonder if they got any review samples at the conference yesterday? Or is AMD going to put the card up for pre-order without reviews (which seems ridiculous)?

Not really, There is only going to be a very "limited" quantity. Im sure these will go for over $650 at launch.. Now that would seem ridiculous. There are fanboys out there that have $ burning a hole in there pocket, or at least a credit card and a Titan grudge.
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post #299 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

There was no indication that BF4 would be bundled with the cards, with the exception of the BF4 Special Edition card (which probably carries a price premium). The only game they mentioned for Never Settle was Saint's Row 4.

oh RLY?!? hmm go figure i have seen some gpu recommendations based on BF4 "possibly" being in that bundle . . . .go figure. thinking.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Nothing has been said, other than it's "open."

Considering AMD stands to gain tremendously from widespread adoption of Mantle, it would make very little sense for them to charge developers for it.
Open source is the only thing that would make sense.
it won't be "open source" as much as "open platform" - or from what i gleaned from several sources. (pssst see below)

AMD Exposes Mantle
Quote:
This is what Mantle does. It bypasses DirectX (and possibly the hardware abstraction layer) and developers can program very close to the metal with very little overhead from software. This lowers memory and CPU usage, it decreases latency, and because there are fewer “moving parts” AMD claims that they can do 9x the draw calls with Mantle as compared to DirectX. This is a significant boost in overall efficiency. Before everyone gets too excited, we will not see a 9x improvement in overall performance with every application. A single HD 7790 running in Mantle is not going to power 3 x 1080P monitors in Eyefinity faster than a HD 7790 or GTX 780 running in DirectX. Mantle shifts the bottleneck elsewhere.
AMD's Mantle API Gives Devs Direct Hardware Control
Quote:
With Mantle, games like DICE’s 'Battlefield 4' will be empowered with the ability to speak the native language of the Graphics Core Next architecture, presenting a deeper level of hardware optimization no other graphics card manufacturer can match," the company said on Wednesday. "Mantle also assists game developers in bringing games to life on multiple platforms by leveraging the commonalities between GCN-powered PCs and consoles for a simple game development process.
AMD unveils revolutionary 'Mantle' API to optimize GPU performance
Quote:
Battlefield 4 will be the first title to use Mantle, with the technology coming through a free update in December. Mantle brings greater control of the GPU and CPU to game developers, especially in the memory department, which will allow games to harness the full potential of graphics cards. This model will be more similar to what is found on consoles, where developers have huge control over what hardware they use in their games.
AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative to Unleash AMD GPU's Full Potential
Quote:
This new low-level programming interface is the crux to tapping the true performance of the AMD GCN GPUs which the Frostbite 3 game engine from EA Games is working to support. In fact, Frostite 3 will render natively with Mantle in Windows without needing to use DirectX 11 when used with compatible AMD Radeon GPUs. A lightweight Mantle driver will allow direct access to the GCN GPU's hardware while developers concerned with hopping aboard this new API can take solace that its compatible with DirectX HLSL (high level shading language) for simplified porting. At the end of the day, Mantle seeks to bridge the differences in developing for PC gaming and console gaming and bring to consumers all sorts of games at a quicker pace
AMD’s Mantle API, and What it Means for PC Gaming and Steam Machines
Quote:
As for Steam Machines, if you already thought they could lead to the end of console gaming as we know it, this makes it even moreso. If Valve sets a minimum specification for Steam Machines to be around the level of an Xbox One, and is able to provide low level programming, they could easily undercut the Xbox One and PS4 with standard PC hardware that performs close to what the dedicated consoles are capable of. And from there, they could offer upgrades for those who want even better performance and quality.
Understanding AMD’s Mantle: A Low-Level Graphics API For GCN
Quote:
With that said, the potential for Mantle is not the same as the actual execution for Mantle, and even if we’re correct about Mantle’s Xbox One origins, Mantle’s success is far from guaranteed. Mantle right now is merely the toolset to realize the possibility of bringing over existing low level code to the PC. To be successful, AMD at a minimum needs to convince multiplatform developers that it’s worth their time to do Mantle enabled versions of their rendering engines, as despite the easy porting it’s still more work than just doing the typical Direct3D port. Even then, that only captures multiplatform ports; native PC games are another matter entirely. Mantle does not necessary need native PC games to be successful for AMD, but certainly it would strongly validate the existence and capabilities of Mantle if AMD was able to get native PC games developed against it too. After all, the draw call benefits of Mantle are still very real, regardless of which platform is the lead platform for a game.


maybe a large percentage of folks here need to click on a few of the above links instead of "reply" because the ONLY game to use mantle is BF4 in december - whether or not other games (even with the FB 3 engine) will use it is FAR from confirmed.
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post #300 of 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Nothing has been said, other than it's "open."

Considering AMD stands to gain tremendously from widespread adoption of Mantle, it would make very little sense for them to charge developers for it.
Open source is the only thing that would make sense.

Thanks smile.gif
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