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Server 2008 VM within another Server 2008 VM?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Here's the deal...
Detailed description
We have 2 virtual servers hosted at a datacenter. One is an application server, the other is the SQL server. We are purchasing a third party SSO package that needs to run on it's own server. Rather than subscribing to a 3rd virtual server, is it technically possible to install the 3rd virtual server within Hyper V on the application server? Policy issues aside, I just want to know if I can run a VM of a server on an already virtualized server.


Brief desciption
Server A is a physical server.
Server B is a virtual server (server 2008)
Server C is a virtual server running on Server B.

Is Server C capable of running within a Server B's hypervisor? (basically a VM within a VM)


Think of it as VM inception. A virtual machine inside a virutal machine. I know it's possible with Windows 7 using Workstation. I once had a VM of Windows 7, inside that VM I created another VM of windows 7, inside of that VM I created a VM of Linux....

That's with a Desktop OS though, is it possible using Server 2008 R2?

Reason being, it's too expensive to lease another physical server and it's too expensive to lease another "real" virtual server. (but we can do whatever we want on Server B)
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post #2 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Here's the deal...
Detailed description
We have 2 virtual servers hosted at a datacenter. One is an application server, the other is the SQL server. We are purchasing a third party SSO package that needs to run on it's own server. Rather than subscribing to a 3rd virtual server, is it technically possible to install the 3rd virtual server within Hyper V on the application server? Policy issues aside, I just want to know if I can run a VM of a server on an already virtualized server.


Brief desciption
Server A is a physical server.
Server B is a virtual server (server 2008)
Server C is a virtual server running on Server B.

Is Server C capable of running within a Server B's hypervisor? (basically a VM within a VM)


Think of it as VM inception. A virtual machine inside a virutal machine. I know it's possible with Windows 7 using Workstation. I once had a VM of Windows 7, inside that VM I created another VM of windows 7, inside of that VM I created a VM of Linux....

That's with a Desktop OS though, is it possible using Server 2008 R2?

Reason being, it's too expensive to lease another physical server and it's too expensive to lease another "real" virtual server. (but we can do whatever we want on Server B)

If the physical box is running Hyper-V, then no you cannot install Hyper-V on Server B to run a VM on it. However, you may be able to use VirtualBox on Server B and run a VM on it.

The thing is, this scenario is not supported in the Microsoft world. You will likely run into performance issues, or compatibility issues.
post #3 of 8
This is definitely not a supported idea and you will almost certainly encounter performance issues.

Yes it is possible (Not with hyper v inside the VM.). I do hope this server isn't being used to provide a professional service?
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post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rocker View Post

This is definitely not a supported idea and you will almost certainly encounter performance issues.

Yes it is possible (Not with hyper v inside the VM.). I do hope this server isn't being used to provide a professional service?

Professional service indeed...actually the SSO server is $6,000 per third party site. (Thats after talking the vendor down from 12k a connection)

Thanks for the input though, just trying to get the most out of the two virtual servers.

The reason we were looking at this is so each function of this package we purchased would have its own dedicated server (avoiding services interacting with each other)

The the pieces are Application server, SQL server, and a SSO server. I HOPE we can avoid having to lease a 3rd server.

So from the sounds of it, you can't use the hyperv role on an already virtualized server. What other VM products would you all recommend for the server setting?
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post #5 of 8
Hyper-V, even the role-based version, is what is referred to as a Type 1 hypervisor in that it integrates directly with hardware. This means that the utilization of resources will be more efficient, but it also means that you can't have a second instance of Hyper-V running in the virtualized environment. You can, however, use a Type 2 hypervisor like VirtualBox or VMware Workstation. These interface with the OS (virtual or not) before hitting the hardware layer.

Based on your workload, I wouldn't go down this road.
    
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post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post

Hyper-V, even the role-based version, is what is referred to as a Type 1 hypervisor in that it integrates directly with hardware. This means that the utilization of resources will be more efficient, but it also means that you can't have a second instance of Hyper-V running in the virtualized environment. You can, however, use a Type 2 hypervisor like VirtualBox or VMware Workstation. These interface with the OS (virtual or not) before hitting the hardware layer.

Based on your workload, I wouldn't go down this road.

I'll take your input into deep consideration. Just another question though. The only reason this 3rd VM will exist is to handle our Single Sign On...so all it will do is handle the authentication between our application and third party websites following the SAML 2.0 guidelines. It sucks because the work load is VERY VERY small, but it's too crucial to leave out - and franky quite an extra expense!

So, best case scenario seems like leasing a 3rd virtual server to install the SSO package on. Maybe we can see if they have a very low power/priority level of servers.
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post #7 of 8
I would bite the bullet and run the SSO on the SQL server, if it doesn't take up that many resources, why not just install it on there? If you REALLY want to save 6k$ you will. You could always find a way cheaper host and do an ipsec VPN tunnel or something. I dunno.
post #8 of 8
If a Windows virtual server is costing you that much, then either you are getting ripped off or there is more to your hosting than you are leading on.

A dedicated server normally costs as low as $50/mo, up to $150/mo for pretty good hardware. of course you have to provide your own Windows license at this point. If you were to lease a dedicated server, buy your Windows license, run Hyper-V on the host, you could then virtualize as many VMs as that server can host.

Wait, what's running on your physical server? Can you not just install Hyper-V on that box?
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