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[polygon]Microsoft and Sony could be ‘hostile’ to AMD’s Mantle API, Carmack says - Page 11

post #101 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

Alright I'm not sure why people can't understand my point so I'm going to summarize it super simple like with this question:

If manufacturer a has a new method that allows for 30% peformance improvements for ALL their cards across the board on new games as a result of the fact that they added a new form of code that all game users are using (as a result of console exclusivity) WHICH CANNOT be implemented onto the competition nor emulated in a manner that allows them to still be competitive in pricing or financial sustainability, how does the second company continue to exist in the market?
Free market = survival of the fittest. You don't see many Intel users crying about ICC. And in the GPU case there is nothing stopping Nvidia from doing the same. AMD (hopefully) isn't making them exclusive to this avenue, and from their term open I think not. So it is just everyday business.
post #102 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Free market = survival of the fittest. You don't see many Intel users crying about ICC. And in the GPU case there is nothing stopping Nvidia from doing the same. AMD (hopefully) isn't making them exclusive to this avenue, and from their term open I think not. So it is just everyday business.

If you read into how drivers work and such, you'd know the possibility of this being transalatabled to nvidia seems next to impossible.
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post #103 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

If you read into how drivers work and such, you'd know the possibility of this being transalatabled to nvidia seems next to impossible.
I mean make their own.
post #104 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

how does the second company continue to exist in the market?

The same way every company does when their competitor makes a better product then them...either adapt or die. What are you not understanding here? The Titan was 30-40% faster than the 7970...where were you with all this anger when that happened? Where were you with all your, "HOW DARE Nvidia make a faster GPU than AMD!!!". Oh...you weren't? Because that didn't effect your Nvidia biased then? Oh OK...

This is called BUSINESS. AMD has no secret contract that says they must not exceed "x" amount of power over Nvidia. They're in the business of making the BEST PRODUCT THEY CAN. If that product so happens to be a $600 video card that is 30% faster than Nvidia's $1000 card THEN SO BE IT!

I don't see you getting mad at Intel for being faster than AMD CPU's or mad at Ferrari for being faster than Kia. You're argument is moot.
Edited by AndroidVageta - 9/27/13 at 5:23pm
post #105 of 148
Customers and developers are the main beneficiaries of this. I think if Sony or Microsoft get butthurt about it, they are being irrationally greedy. Change always brings resistance, but moves like this that can change the industry as a whole for the better need to be accepted by everyone.
post #106 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

The same way every company does when their competitor makes a better product then them...either adapt or die. What are you not understanding here? The Titan was 30-40% faster than the 7970...where were you with all this anger when that happened?

This is called BUSINESS. AMD has no secret contract that says they must not exceed "x" amount of power over Nvidia. They're in the business of making the BEST PRODUCT THEY CAN. If that product so happens to be a $600 video card that is 30% faster than Nvidia's $1000 card THEN SO BE IT!

I don't see you getting mad at Intel for being faster than AMD CPU's or bad at Ferrari for being faster than Kia. You're argument is moot.

Yes, it is business. All that anti-Mantle posters are saying is it could be bad for competition. If the performance difference is large enough, fatally bad. 290X "ridiculing" Titan in BF4 when Titan is 15% faster in Firestrike? That sounds like a 30%+ improvement to me. Nobody should want Nvidia gone. Barriers to entry in the graphics business are extremely high, if Nvidia goes it will be a while before someone comes back.

I'm so pumped to get an extra 30% in Frostbite 3, Cryengine and whatever else on my AMD cards this generation and then have to pay twice as much for them next gen and then three times as much when Nvidia is gone.
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post #107 of 148
My only hope atm is that the new AMD card forces nvidia to drop the price a bit for the 780, so I can afford a 2nd one. >.>

I plan on keeping this rig until I don't get the performance I want anymore, and I will use AMD if mantle is widely adopted and the games *I want* use it. The main reason I went for the 780 was because I wanted the titan just because I've never bought *the best* before, but couldn't justify the price to myself, so I compromised.

My last PC was a i7 920 with an HD 4870 which started to go, so I got an HD 6870, and the PC before that was an AMD Athlon 64 x2 4200+ which had an nvidia card, I forget which, I think that PC had a few different GPUs in it over the years. This is my first custom PC, my last PCs were all prebuilt OEMs that I got not knowing better.

I have no brand loyalty. 3 games I'm looking forward to the most atm are CoD, Witcher 3 and Titanfall. So I guess I'm lucky 2/3 are "nvidia optimized" ?

My opinion on Mantle is, if it picks up, it's a good business decision. I'm glad I'm set for quite a few years personally, except maybe getting a 2nd 780 and 2 more monitors for a surround setup. By the time I need to upgrade, we'll know if Mantle becomes something widely used, or a "gimmick" like PhysX kinda is, sure I love PhysX in Borderlands 2, but I could live without it. I'm also going to try 3D Vision because I want a 120hz monitor anyways for gaming, as I've been stuck with my 60hz TN panel for like 6-7 years. I figure, I like 3D a lot, have nvidia atm, and am getting the monitor that can utilize it, why not?

And if it becomes widely used, we'll know by then what nVidia's response is, and I can make my next major GPU purchase decision accordingly. My only concern is prices if nVidia doesn't properly respond and AMD is dominating.

My point is, I don't regret my 780 purchase at all, even if mantle picks up and a lot of games use it, and AMD get better performance, because if you go through life with regrets, then you'll never do anything, always wondering "should I buy this, or will the next thing be way better?"
post #108 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooBAMF View Post

Yes, it is business. All that anti-Mantle posters are saying is it could be bad for competition. If the performance difference is large enough, fatally bad.

Hasn't killed ATI or AMD over the years so this is just wrong.
Quote:
290X "ridiculing" Titan in BF4 when Titan is 15% faster in Firestrike? That sounds like a 30%+ improvement to me.

Sounds like AMD is getting it right this time around. $1000 for a GPU was stupid to begin with.
Quote:
Nobody should want Nvidia gone. Barriers to entry in the graphics business are extremely high, if Nvidia goes it will be a while before someone comes back.

No body want's Nvidia gone and they aren't going anywhere. Plus if they do Intel can pick up the slack...they should already be a major player, don't know what they're waiting for myself.
Quote:
I'm so pumped to get an extra 30% in Frostbite 3, Cryengine and whatever else on my AMD cards this generation and then have to pay twice as much for them next gen and then three times as much when Nvidia is gone.

This is just stupid. AMD would never charge $1000-2000 for a GPU just because there wouldn't be any major competition around. Come on man. Wow...just wow...
post #109 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

If you read into how drivers work and such, you'd know the possibility of this being transalatabled to nvidia seems next to impossible.

good! wth.gif
    
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post #110 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

Alright I'm not sure why people can't understand my point so I'm going to summarize it super simple like with this question:

If manufacturer a has a new method that allows for 30% peformance improvements for ALL their cards across the board on new games as a result of the fact that they added a new form of code that all game users are using (as a result of console exclusivity) WHICH CANNOT be implemented onto the competition nor emulated in a manner that allows them to still be competitive in pricing or financial sustainability, how does the second company continue to exist in the market?

I have one response to this. Cuda

More apps are optimized for cuda than open cl

AMD still sell fire pro cards.
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