Originally Posted by trulsrohk
Actually with the exception of the Titan and the 780 the 7xxx series is in general far superior to Nvidia's same price level offerings. Just as far as brute hardware power goes. So you could actually say that Mantle will just help unlock the hidden potential that AMD cards have had..
I wouldn't call it hidden potential. Mantle will not help any existing game. 7970 will still be slower than 780 in most currently released games. This has absolutely nothing to do with the benefits of GCN, just the benefits of coding for it.
As for your conjecture about how the 290x and titan measure up and whether or not it "needs" mantle to not be embarrased, we simply don't know at this point
That's true. I am speculating on the real performance of Mantle and of the 290X. Companies tend to overstate the performance of their hardware in presentations. AMD did not do this, they didn't even show it. We have to infer it from a poor Firestrike graphic. Either the Firestrike graphic is indicative of performance or AMD screwed up their marketing. If the GPU was that great, AMD would not have spent so much time telling us about other things. 290X will not beat Titan on average, I will call that. 780 is very close to Titan, so it will probably be a wash. All Nvidia has to do is lower Titan's price, which they may not do, but 290X is not impressive if all it does is match the 780 at basically the same price.
Mantle is what they are hoping will make it impressive. If AMD could have made the 290X faster than the Titan in other games, they would have done it and they would have said it. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, AMD's marketing team needs to be fired. People previously considering 780s have no reason to consider 290X except for Mantle.
Originally Posted by Tsumi
I assume you can see into the future and tell us exactly how well the R290X is going to perform
I'm guessing, yes guessing, that AMD would have made a big deal about the performance if it was better than the Titan. They didn't say anything, just Mantle, TrueAudio, transistors, TFLOPS and 8000 Firestrike. I will eat my words if this turns out to be untrue, but I'm 99% sure it will be true.
Originally Posted by Durquavian
Way too much wrong here. Last point first: ICC is way worse than Mantle. ICC forces non-Intel CPUs to use SSE_ where as Intel CPUs use AVX. Problem here is AMD can use AVX, but Nvidia doesn't have GCN. So there is a lack of inherent evil in AMDs use whereas Intels is full of it. First point last: Amd is likely competitive with the 290X against the Titan. When you compare prices then the 290X will likely pull ahead. Even if on the FPS metric the Titan is still on top and even if only 5% it doesn't mean AMD cant keep up or compete. You seem a fair bit one sided or biased for some reason. Seem is the key word here.
Again were you fine with Titan being the 30-40% better over 7970 for the last 7-8mths? Seems you must have been. And yet you complain about AMD having a possible lead against Nvidias best.
I don't care which is more evil. People are celebrating Mantle like it's great for PC Gaming. If people were celebrating ICC like it was great for CPU tasks, I would argue against that as well. I'm trying to point out the negative potential of this. The negative potential of ICC has already occurred. Just because I have an Intel CPU doesn't mean I support the use of ICC or like seeing AMD relegated to SSE. However, if much of the Intel benefit is because of ICC, we see this same thing happening. AMD CPUs are very hard to recommend for enthusiast gamers, and Intel charges an Intel tax starting at $190 for their base locked quad core. That's bad. Mantle has the potential to be just as bad even if Intel's motivations were more evil. All I'm doing is pointing that out.
As far as Nvidia's hardware advantage, that made games run faster in OpenGL or DirectX. There was no problem with competition because everyone expected AMD to release hardware in a refresh, which they are now doing but with the addition of a software advantage that has nothing to do with the merits of the card and everything to do with their market position. Of course AMD would do that, just like Intel would use their size and position, but it's not good for anyone but AMD.