Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [CBS]Water discovered in Mars surface layer
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[CBS]Water discovered in Mars surface layer - Page 5

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Yes, for life...as we know it. evo.gif

Though the human definition of "life" has a few criteria and one of them is getting energy from a chemical conversion...like metabolism. So this rules out any thing like rocks that might actually have thought processes. I'd like for the definition of life to be changed a little bit. I mean viruses aren't even considered lifeforms because they can't reproduce on their own (another one of the criteria to be alive).

Changed to what? Because as it is now, fire is right on the edge of what life is. If you expand it any more, it would include anything.

As for "thought processes" life does not have to have thought processes, like bacteria. Most bacteria is just a series of chemical reactions.

There is a ton of things that we know of that has zero nervous system and zero possibility for thought processes.
The Guppy
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 980x Ga-x58a-ud3r rev.2 460 gtx Sli 16gb 
Hard DrivePowerCase
Samsung f3 Corsair TX950W Haf 932 
  hide details  
Reply
The Guppy
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 980x Ga-x58a-ud3r rev.2 460 gtx Sli 16gb 
Hard DrivePowerCase
Samsung f3 Corsair TX950W Haf 932 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Changed to what? Because as it is now, fire is right on the edge of what life is. If you expand it any more, it would include anything.

As for "thought processes" life does not have to have thought processes, like bacteria. Most bacteria is just a series of chemical reactions.

There is a ton of things that we know of that has zero nervous system and zero possibility for thought processes.

I just think it should be possible to be alive and not have to meet all of the criteria. I find it very hard to believe that all life will develop the exact same way as it did on earth. With the current focus I think a life form might get overlooked if they found it.

...and bacteria might be smarter than we think too. Ever worked with bioflims? They are kind of cool over all, but one of the best things are that you find evidence of chemical communication between bacteria; transmissions and responses.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil~ View Post

Mars does not have enough H2O to support life. The amount of energy needed to produce 1 gallon of usable water would make the process inefficient.
It's life. Inefficiency is not what stops life from spreading.... what usually happens is a lifeforms find an environment with little competition and adapts over time to thrive in it free from competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil~ View Post

I am speaking in realistic terms. If we are supposed to live on Mars with current or near current technology (say 100 years into the future) it would be impossible. You can't use all the energy you have to produce water as it is volatile. Say you use a 2000F or 50,000HP generator/furnace to make 5,000 gallons of water. On Mars atmosphere, that would be used in a day, if not mere hours. And you need to make more, but your fuel is gone because you were using it for other things too like lighting, work and recreational purposes. You know, living.

That's why I said there is no life on Mars. There is simply not enough (if any) H2O to support life as we know it.
Mars has polar caps with ice.
Also, how do you know there aren't underground lakes?
Microscopic organism could hunt and extract water crystals as needed as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Water, or iodine, are the only compounds, in which we know of, are capable of acting as a medium for organic transfer within organic life. Large quantities of oxygen is not needed, but a medium for protein transfer has been the common ground for organic life.
I believe life could also exist in liquid methane. Some believe Saturn's moon Titan might be capable of supporting life.
methane does not consists of similar properties in order to remain a medium and exist in state behavior as water. Methane is far too reactive, as a start, to maintain being inert to the medium transfer. The point is not chemical make up of life but a medium for which life to exist in. Water and iodine have shown to be the only properties in order for this to exist under our current understanding of life (and all life on and outside of this planet). Not sure of an iodine life, but it's the only compound that would behave similar to water to maintain the properties that promote life.

Mars isn't even large enough to maintain a decent atmosphere for surface life. Under the surface is the place to explore.
post #44 of 58
One thing I like to keep in mind when I see these kind of news.

There is life in the universe.

Now, whether you are selffish and believe we are alone or you are open the the idea that we might be either the top evolution or some sort of primitive race.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

I tried to bring up this exact point before and everyone got all mad at me about how we have to maintain an absolute narrow viewpoint on life and that only humans and what we need can be life and that is the only form it takes, no other creatures are allowed to exist beyond what we humans need. So be careful, people will likely start to flame you quite a bit for thinking "outside the box"
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

I fail to understand the reason why there must be water in a planet for that planet to have living organisms or aliens if you will... Many scientists just write off life on a planet if there isn't water.

It's not about being narrow minded or about "thinking outside the box," it's being realistic. You only have so much money. You have so much space and so much weight on a rocket. That means you can only bring so many extremely specialized sensors and cameras. You only have so many launches a year and enough man power to build so many probes.

If you aren't looking for water, life as we know it, or common-to-earth biological molecules... what the heck are you looking for? Do you want to look for poop-monsters on uranus (lol), or uranium based mushroom spores on jupiter? Silicon based viruses on neptune? What do you even need to find something like that and how much money do you need to build the sensors for it? How could you possibly stand up in front of a panel of anyone and make a case that you should specifically spend 10+ years and billions of dollars looking for "not life" just in case it is actually life?

Of course all these unknown lifeforms could exist all over the universe, but you've got to make baby steps and start with what you know, what you can justify, and what you can afford. I'm all for putting as many probes on as many planets as possible to look for everything, but it just isn't realistic.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k 4.5GHz @ 1.32V Asus P8P67 Pro EVGA GTX 580 Mushkin 2133 9-10-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840  WD Black Silver Arrow Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2211H Rosewill RK-9000BR Seasonic X750 HAF X 
MouseAudio
Razer Lachesis Grado HF2 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k 4.5GHz @ 1.32V Asus P8P67 Pro EVGA GTX 580 Mushkin 2133 9-10-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840  WD Black Silver Arrow Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2211H Rosewill RK-9000BR Seasonic X750 HAF X 
MouseAudio
Razer Lachesis Grado HF2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post


It's not about being narrow minded or about "thinking outside the box," it's being realistic.

I agree... even in the raw over view of the whole idea is pretty unrealistic. We are on a planet that has thousands upon thousands of times more resources than any planet that is reachable, and somehow we have the idea that these other planets or moons might support us? Like maybe a tiny percentage. And even then the prospect of fronteiring is extremely costly and rediculous with no resources at hand it crazy. this planet can't even decide whether it wants to restrict land owners from touching their own land because of salamanders, but yet they have no problem uprooting a whole nother planet to forage resources. This has to be the most hypocritical and unrealistic idea ever.
Home PC
(12 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 - 4770k MSI Z87 Mpower Max AMD R9 290x G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer NZXT Kraken x60 
MonitorPower
Asus PB278Q 27.0" Monitor Rosewill Capstone 750 modular 
  hide details  
Reply
Home PC
(12 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 - 4770k MSI Z87 Mpower Max AMD R9 290x G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Seagate Desktop HDD 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer NZXT Kraken x60 
MonitorPower
Asus PB278Q 27.0" Monitor Rosewill Capstone 750 modular 
  hide details  
Reply
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post


It's not about being narrow minded or about "thinking outside the box," it's being realistic. You only have so much money. You have so much space and so much weight on a rocket. That means you can only bring so many extremely specialized sensors and cameras. You only have so many launches a year and enough man power to build so many probes.

If you aren't looking for water, life as we know it, or common-to-earth biological molecules... what the heck are you looking for? Do you want to look for poop-monsters on uranus (lol), or uranium based mushroom spores on jupiter? Silicon based viruses on neptune? What do you even need to find something like that and how much money do you need to build the sensors for it? How could you possibly stand up in front of a panel of anyone and make a case that you should specifically spend 10+ years and billions of dollars looking for "not life" just in case it is actually life?

Of course all these unknown lifeforms could exist all over the universe, but you've got to make baby steps and start with what you know, what you can justify, and what you can afford. I'm all for putting as many probes on as many planets as possible to look for everything, but it just isn't realistic.

Yup, the tools included on the probes are extremely limited due to weight, complexity, cost, re-usability, power budget, flexibility, robustness, etc.

Basically, a single human could probably achieve the same results as all Mar probes ever in a single day of work. However, space travel is VERY VERY hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I agree... even in the raw over view of the whole idea is pretty unrealistic. We are on a planet that has thousands upon thousands of times more resources than any planet that is reachable, and somehow we have the idea that these other planets or moons might support us? Like maybe a tiny percentage. And even then the prospect of fronteiring is extremely costly and rediculous with no resources at hand it crazy. this planet can't even decide whether it wants to restrict land owners from touching their own land because of salamanders, but yet they have no problem uprooting a whole nother planet to forage resources. This has to be the most hypocritical and unrealistic idea ever.

NASA wants to catch an asteroid and place it a Lagrange point for study. Private firms are researching similar technology to possible mine asteroids in the the future.
Edited by DuckieHo - 9/30/13 at 9:51am
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

It's life. Inefficiency is not what stops life from spreading.... what usually happens is a lifeforms find an environment with little competition and adapts over time to thrive in it free from competition.
Mars has polar caps with ice.
Also, how do you know there aren't underground lakes?
Microscopic organism could hunt and extract water crystals as needed as well.
I believe life could also exist in liquid methane. Some believe Saturn's moon Titan might be capable of supporting life.

And we have not found any trace of life, at all. Why don't we just nuke Mars from orbit, with a detonation point near the ground. Maybe the crater will reveal all these lakes or martian critters scurrying around.
Main System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II 560 @ 4.00Ghz Asus EVO USB3.0 GTX 670 8 GB 1600 Corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 830 128GB, 80GB Raptor, 1 TB 7200 RPM, ... LG Zalman CNPS 9700 Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2311H 23" HP ZR30w Razer Black Widow Ultimate Edition Corsair TX650w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 600T Special Edition (White) Razer Imperator 4G Absent Asus Xonar DS, Sony STR-DH720 Reciever , Sennhi... 
  hide details  
Reply
Main System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II 560 @ 4.00Ghz Asus EVO USB3.0 GTX 670 8 GB 1600 Corsair 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 830 128GB, 80GB Raptor, 1 TB 7200 RPM, ... LG Zalman CNPS 9700 Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2311H 23" HP ZR30w Razer Black Widow Ultimate Edition Corsair TX650w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 600T Special Edition (White) Razer Imperator 4G Absent Asus Xonar DS, Sony STR-DH720 Reciever , Sennhi... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil~ View Post

And we have not found any trace of life, at all. Why don't we just nuke Mars from orbit, with a detonation point near the ground. Maybe the crater will reveal all these lakes or martian critters scurrying around.


We landed 3 mobile robots and a few stationary ones. We have explored something like 0.0000001% of Mars...
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by funfortehfun View Post

With our current knowledge, no. Water is required for most (pretty much all) chemical processes in organisms. Proteins, nucleic acids, lipids, etc... all depend on water. 

Right, but this is based on our currently known elements. There could be millions more that have never reached our planet.
Gaming rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790K Asus Z97 Pro Wifi EVGA GTX970sc Crucial ballistic 16GB DDR3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 256GB SSD WD 1TB HDD Samsung DVDRW Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
W 10 Pro Samsung 23" Logitech g105 Corsair 750w 
Case
Corsair Carbide Spec-02 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4790K Asus Z97 Pro Wifi EVGA GTX970sc Crucial ballistic 16GB DDR3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 256GB SSD WD 1TB HDD Samsung DVDRW Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
W 10 Pro Samsung 23" Logitech g105 Corsair 750w 
Case
Corsair Carbide Spec-02 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [CBS]Water discovered in Mars surface layer