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post #11 of 26
This is great news for pc gaming and the industry. AMD is actually driving the pc industry and gaming which is good news for both camps.
I love how rickcooperjr has sources to back his claims instead of other users just lalalala
Jokes a side; if the given sources are true then AMD deserves credit. Keep it civil girls/guys
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post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguetrip View Post

Quote:
EA and Activision have already said they will default with Mantle API on PC and if hardware is not AMD GCN architecture will fall back to directX or open GL which is a huge performance decrease Mantle offers upto 9x or more the perfomance boost on exact same Radeon / ATI / AMD hardware over directX or openGL and offers no performance increase for Intel / Nvidia at all.

Thats up to 9x Draw calls according to your first linked article. I believe that has to do with Wireframe / Geometry setup. A good thing yes, but only a small picture of the whole graphic pipeline procedure.


Quote:
PLZ I am trying to get a bit better understanding as to what this meens for next gen games I know better multithreading / also multi threaded rendering / and even bypassing the DirectX and OpenGL API altogether giving AMD / ATI / Radeon hardware 9x or more performance boost over Nvidia / Intel being stuck using directX / OpenGL API's. We also get AMD true audio bypassing the normal route for sound and doing it on the GPU rather than by CPU or anything else on motherboard.

From the reading and youtube I've had time to catch up on thus far. To me it looks like mantle will be a boost to any GPU/APU with GCN Arc. This doesn't affect CPU in itself so Intel/AMD cpu and discrete AMD GPU supporting Mantle should be the same performance. Intel and Nvidia GPU's not using Mantle will be held back a bit obviously.

I bet as soon as Mantle gets traction that Microsoft will come along and bully them with more activity with DirectX. Back in the OpenGL's API dominant years (windows 9x kernel days) It was going places but Microsoft was bullying /stifling them out of the marketplace with DX on purpose as being Open source this could mean Linux or another OS could compete for Users/Marketshare. Sadly it took alot of suffering with DX waiting for it to get caught up to OpenGL's performance and visuals. Even now OGL could do better if not beaten down by MS.



Another reason everyone needs to remember those 9x kernel days. Back then things could be performed at lower level access for Audio/Video and more access to lower protected memory. Many 3rd party developers would prove this to be a bad thing as it would lead up to many many more BSOD/GPF screens with this kind of access leading to bad and frustrating user experience with a unstable work enviroment. With usage of the Windows NT kernel you got less low-level access on purpose so MS would get blamed less for these BSOD/GPF's and increase Security that tarnish its 9x history. So here we are with Higher-level access so you get a better user experience from Windows OS'es even if that means less performance.

I do look forward to seeing what can happen with Mantle but with AMD will not hold my breath. They have a history of terrible legacy performance/support a even now have continued FrameTime issues that it seems to never be cleaned up with Beta drivers.


I just want to point out that was back in the olden days when there were issues with bandwidth and PCI controllers add to it CPU's were alot weaker and couldnt handle the extra stress add to it the hardrives themselfs were to slow to handle the stuff back then not even including fact that was back in the infancy of ddr ram I believe so the issues from then when they had direct access to the hardware of course windows and entire system went crazy and caused BSOD's facts are hardware all around has progressed 10-20 times since those days along with the software / windows OS itself.


Oh and actually this does affect CPU itself this time around more of the processing / computations will be done on the AMD Radeon GCN hardware to offload alot of stress off the CPU add to it Mantle brings 8+ core multithreading to any game automatically and even brings multi threaded rendering to any game do some reading it is interesting stuff basically it will convert games designed with heavy single thread usage over to multi threaded.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 10/1/13 at 10:43am
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post #13 of 26
There is a link over at hardocp with more talk on mantle api. Im working and will try to catch it later.

Make me feel old with that olden day crap. Back then it was always software and drivers that caused most problems. I run an old pin modded p3 still with win me. If you knew what you were doing you rarely see bsods.

Sadly since going from my amd 960t recently to my 4670k ive not had so many bsods in the last decade. This i5 has been a pita with them.
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
yeah alot of people are having nightmares with the haswells sorry to hear you having those issues with constant BSOD's since you changed to haswell I5 I know I had a haswell rig that had a major issue it heated up like a nuclear reactor and did a crazy thermal throttling thing and also had all around stability issues even without overclocking and on stock settings.

have you checked to see if it is temperature related BSOD's or maybe memory issues apparently haswell had a issue with memory of certain speeds and such that caused alot of BSOD's when all memory slots are used there is a reason many refer to haswell as failwell not including the lack of performance increase for the premium price mainly the issue is they focused on eco laptop / tablet features instead of performance.

PLZ before the haters step in claiming I am a faildozer / faildriver supporter or a pure AMD person till recently I didnt support AMD much for past 10yrs I was a hardcore Intel user until I got my AMD phenom2 955be c3 took it to 4.2ghz x4 then to this rig before that I was a sole Intel CPU user I found AMD has better bang for buck and in real world doesnt fall so far behind Intel as many say they do.

I also want to point out finding out how dirty Intel has been going about stuff didnt make things feel any better for instance the biased Intel compilers and such crippling any non genuine Intel CPU and the way Intel has been illegaly strong arming companies and such. look into some of Intels lawsuits against them and such the EU fined Intel for $1.45BILLION http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/business/global/14compete.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I say this because I dont want to start a flame war I opened this thread to get a better idea all around what these new alterations / AMD optimizations will do and what this meens for next gen. I also thought others might be interested in this also from what I have read and seen the future looks heavily AMD at the helm with max optimizations and also with more perks than Nvidia / Intel which is what this thread was started about.


I also want to point out I wasnt trying to make you feel old just stating hardware has progressed alot to point the issues from olden days wont exist like for instance the old school PCI controllers / memory controllers / and all around slow hardrives caused alot of the BSOD's you were refering to and in general entire system couldnt handle the added bandwidth / resource usage that the added draw calls added which caused alot of BSOD's from back then.
Edited by rickcooperjr - 10/1/13 at 1:50pm
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post #15 of 26
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post #16 of 26
Guess we will have to wait till 11/11 before we get some more and hopefully juicy details.

As for my i5. Its a challenge like the olden days. Kinda fun yet frustrating...like the olden days LOL.

I've solved a few issues so far and just keep running into a different blue screen every few days. Even created a build log of all my work keeping track changes/fixes/tweaks.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguetrip View Post

Guess we will have to wait till 11/11 before we get some more and hopefully juicy details.

As for my i5. Its a challenge like the olden days. Kinda fun yet frustrating...like the olden days LOL.

I've solved a few issues so far and just keep running into a different blue screen every few days. Even created a build log of all my work keeping track changes/fixes/tweaks.

well be aware alot of those errors could be ram related how many sticks you running try running it with only 2 in if running quad channel set 1 in first slot and second in 3rd slot I had same issue and it caused random BSOD's and each time had a different error code with my haswell I7 4770k had to literally take 2 sticks out and run in dual channel as above and it fixxed 90% of issues only other was heat issues mine was one of the cursed ones that could barely run stock clock on a corsair H100I in push pull with high speed yate loons on it it would ride 95c-105c under heavy loads like prime or trying to render a video with handbrake on stock clocks and such.


The issue has to do with memory controller issues and also high speed ram overloads it when ran in quad channel so to get stability need to run dual channel.
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post #18 of 26
Wasn't going to post my issues with i5 as I didn't want to derail or clog up your thread.

For years I've used ASUS and love them. This is my 2nd time trying a non-Asus mobo in over a decade LOL. (last one a Albatron Pentium 4). Anyways I was all set to pick up a ASUS Z87-A for $115 but instead picked up my Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H for $75 (and 4670k for $200) and with the extra money picked up a Hyper 212 Evo with the money saved.

With this Gigabyte board it seems like defaults aren't stable and get either too much or not enough voltages for things.

CPU is mostly stock with exception of turbo boost goes to 3.8GHz on ALL cores and not just 1 core.
RAM is stock 1600MHz with lowered timings 8-8-8-24-128@1T 1.42v

Most of my BSOD's have been traced to Uncore Ratio of 34x. I bumped that to 38x. (and possibly Intel Rapid Storage as I uninstalled at same time)
Memory has been an issue and still playing with voltages of VCCSA and Dram voltages and Memory Enhancements. My AMD 960T could run 7-8-8-22@1T 1.45v with no issues for over a year (more like 2011).
Random Wake-up out of sleep mode (hella annoying) was traced to Windows Media Center scheduled updates. It had me thinking it was that C1 chipset bug for the longest.

I think my more recent BSOD's are actually from CoreTemp!! Seems like its always running around the time a crash occurs so I just recently stopped using it as it has no official Haswell support.

Haswell and temps have been an easier task. At first I was hitting 94c at stock with Intel Burn Test. Now I got it down to 65c which is huge and been using the Hyper 212 Evo the whole time. Have not de-lidded my CPU yet wink.gif

My tricks for temps has been swapping stock TIM for AC MX-2 TIM, Lapping the Evo at 1k grit, adding a 140MM fan in 5.25" bays blowing towards the Evo, and the most important one is dropping the default vcore that would normally be 1.13v but boost up to 1.25v down to 1.075v. Just posted to help other members in the 212 club here: http://www.overclock.net/t/632591/cooler-master-hyper-212-plus-evo-club/5900#post_20898602

Eventually may pick up a Zalman Reserator 3 Max if price drops some. Reviews pin it as a bit better than the 212 Evo.

Anyways thanks for suggestions and wanting to help.
Edited by roguetrip - 10/2/13 at 6:06pm
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

well be aware alot of those errors could be ram related how many sticks you running try running it with only 2 in if running quad channel set 1 in first slot and second in 3rd slot I had same issue and it caused random BSOD's and each time had a different error code with my haswell I7 4770k had to literally take 2 sticks out and run in dual channel as above and it fixxed 90% of issues only other was heat issues mine was one of the cursed ones that could barely run stock clock on a corsair H100I in push pull with high speed yate loons on it it would ride 95c-105c under heavy loads like prime or trying to render a video with handbrake on stock clocks and such.


The issue has to do with memory controller issues and also high speed ram overloads it when ran in quad channel so to get stability need to run dual channel.
I'm confused. LGA1150 certainly doesn't have quad-channel. wth.gif
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post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcooperjr View Post

well be aware alot of those errors could be ram related how many sticks you running try running it with only 2 in if running quad channel set 1 in first slot and second in 3rd slot I had same issue and it caused random BSOD's and each time had a different error code with my haswell I7 4770k had to literally take 2 sticks out and run in dual channel as above and it fixxed 90% of issues only other was heat issues mine was one of the cursed ones that could barely run stock clock on a corsair H100I in push pull with high speed yate loons on it it would ride 95c-105c under heavy loads like prime or trying to render a video with handbrake on stock clocks and such.


The issue has to do with memory controller issues and also high speed ram overloads it when ran in quad channel so to get stability need to run dual channel.
I'm confused. LGA1150 certainly doesn't have quad-channel. wth.gif

I may be wrong but I might be calling 4 stick ram setup quad when it is actually dual cant remember lol sorry if that caused confusion but my haswell I7 4770k had issues running 4 sticks at 2133mhz if I removed 2 sticks and ran 1st and 3rd slots the issue was resolved.
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