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What constitutes a "dead" pump?

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
So in my most recent build (sig rig) I've had an overall positive experience. Building inside a CaseLabs M8 is pretty much the height of luxury in the world of PC modding and it was a good go for sure.

However, it took me a little while to figure out how to effectively fill my reservoir. It's a Koolance RP-452x2, running two D5's. I decided to use my trusty MCP 655 from the previous build as it had no functional issues and ran quiet. I picked up another Laing D5 with a tach cable to pair it with, and during filling, I stupidly ran both pumps at the same time. The new pump is on the immediate intake from the reservoir portion of the res assembly (It goes Res inlet> Reservoir body > pump 1 > pump 2 > out) and during filling it stayed nice and quiet but the second pump (the older one) would start SQUEALING like a crazed Dolphin (a dolphin's chirp is what it reminded me of) for a moment before I'd have to cut power, fill with more water, and repeat. Eventually I clued in that I was running both pumps during the fill so I disconnected the second pump and used the first one alone, and it filled up and bled in like 10 minutes. Quite pleased with that.

Both pumps ran together fine for several weeks until today I noticed that the same pump which had been squealing during the fill (obviously due to running dry) maked a buzzing, rattling sound while it runs. It's faint, but loud enough to be heard over the hum of the 13 other fans in the case. I individually ran each pump, and confirmed that the new pump is running quiet but the second, used pump, which was squealing, is definitely the source of this grindy humming noise.

The sound is very mild, but does this spell the end for my poor MCP 655? It still pushes water fine and I run both at notch 5. Before this rebuild, I had this same pump in my old rig and that ran at 5 for 2+ years without issue or noise. Is it wear and tear causing this or is it that few seconds of repeated dry running while I was learning how to fill a dual pump res? If so, then what constitutes a "dead" pump? Is it when it starts buzzing and humming that it soon dies after? Or am I fine to run this one into the ground until it ceases functioning then change it out for a new one? I'll check it periodically to make sure it can still bear the load and that it's not getting hot. So far it's fine, it just makes a bit of noise. If it fails, the other one is there to keep the water moving.

Anyway, I presume that a pump is a working pump as long as it's still pushing water. I just have OCD about these things and like to be sure everything in my system is healthy otherwise I'm tempted to throw down another $100 immediately to replace it. But should I wait until it actually breaks down? Hopefully it'll hold up for another while yet, at least until my next scheduled coolant change so I can do it all at once.
Thoughts please! Thanks.
Óðinn
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Methuselah
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
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| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
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| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
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| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
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| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
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Óðinn
(15 items)
 
Methuselah
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
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post #2 of 5
I would guess that the dry run damaged the (I think they are ceramic) bearing/bushing of the pump. Side note I've never owned or handled a D5 personally.
You could double check the mounting screws of the bay res/pump mounts to be sure they haven't loosened at all. Otherwise I would run it until either it got too loud for my preference, the flow rate diminishes, or it gives up the ghost. Or until you get the new one shipped and you can't overcome the OCD to change it. I know what you mean by that.

If the cost of a new pump wouldn't be hard on the finances, you could get it and keep the old one as a possible backup. thumb.gif
post #3 of 5
Thread Starter 
All I can say is, thank Þórr for quick disconnects. I can actually dismount and remove the entire reservoir out the bottom with a few inches of tubing on the inlet and outlet because of them. So I can keep the system full, remove and drain the res, mount new pump, reinstall it up into the bottom, done. Of course it'll be a bit of work but it's nothing compared to the 30 hours of hand-smashing it took me to put this thing together initially. Of course that was mostly cable management... Molex be damned. medieval.gif

Actually, I should take this opportunity to install a Aquaero 6 above the reservoir in the single slot space there when I can get my hands on one! Lemons and lemonade, etc.
Edited by lowfiwhiteguy - 10/1/13 at 3:40pm
Óðinn
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Methuselah
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
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Óðinn
(15 items)
 
Methuselah
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
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post #4 of 5
If the D5 is squealing only slightly, it has minor damage, but can be corrected. If it is squealing like a piggy, then forget it.

First, drain the loop and remove the pump.

Next, take the pump volute cover off.

Now take the impeller out.

With at least a 10X hand magnifier, look upward inside the impeller hole. If the plastic is warred down too much, the impeller is shot. If the impeller looks fine, then the plastic got slight warm while dry and has a crazed skin surface on the inside. To fix this problem, use bar-chain oil, REM oil, or the lightest motor oil 5W30 to soak the impeller overnight. NEVER use vegetable oil nor WD40. Now, wipe the impeller dry then place a few drops of the mentioned oil to the white ceramic ball. Finally set the impeller back in place and reassemble the pump and then the loop.
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post #5 of 5
Examining the bearing socket is problematic because unless you have a new impeller to compare to the amount of wear is so small as to be very hard to see.
On a D5 the easy way is to look at the inner metal surface of the pump. It should be completely smooth. If there is tiny wear marks towards the very bottom it is because the bearing has worn down and the impeller is touching.

This an extreme example but you can see how the surface moves from smooth at the sides to worn at the bottom. Touch is probably a better way to sense slight wear. If it feels rough the pump is junked.

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