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propylene glycol added to loop? - Page 2

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

I wouldn't use any additives with propylene or ethylene glycol, or any alcohol-based products, if you're using rigid acrylic tubing, or really any acrylic in your loop. I've seen EG frost up a 10mm thick piece of acrylic on contact, making it looked almost like shattered safety glass. For example, it would void your warranty with primochill's rigid acrylic tubing:
Quote:
Rigid Acrylic Tube is designed to work with a large variety of cooling components, however the use of alcohols, Ethylene Glycol and as well as any other harmful chemicals is strictly prohibited and will void your warranty. PrimoChill is not responsible for any damage caused by or when using this product. Please use at your own risk.

http://www.primochill.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=320

I wouldn't go around quoting this without some explanation. A company saying it voids the warranty doesn't mean much. I have no clue if it does cause acrylic to frost up or not... never happened to me but that doesn't mean a thing. I know that acrylic can contain ethylene glycol in it when it is being formed (as far as I know) and I don't know if that means having EG touch it becomes an issue or not? I wouldn't understand why.

DDC pumps say right on them that they are designed for water/glycol use. EG works as a lubricant and is one of the reasons I use it. Even in a 5% EG/Water mix if you get the fluid on your finger and rub it around you it will be slick... which is why you can't use EG as engine coolant on motorcycle tracks.

I'd need to see a thorough explanation of why EG can't be used with acrylic from an actual citable source other than a company that might just be doing the typical CYA that needs to be done.

That being said it may very well be some acrylics and not others. I don't know enough about the topic to know anything more than EG is in some acrylic formulas.


I don't like speculation and I prefer people to CITE things when they say one thing or another so I did some research. Now this is just after a short amount of research.

Best I can tell EG is compatible with acrylic and primochill would be the last people to be considered an authority on the subject.

http://www.stonco.com/uploads/library/cs_AcrylicCompatibility_812.pdf

http://www.keyinstruments.com/technical-support/chemical-compatibility-charts

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/Library/LL/documents/specsheets/Acrylic-Compatibility.pdf

That is (3) different places that say Ethylene Glycol is compatible with Acrylic... EG and PG are not the same thing is Alcohol for example Alcohol is not a lubricant smile.gif I actually think PG is used in some personal lubricants as the lubricant.
Edited by givmedew - 10/7/13 at 10:04pm
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post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I wouldn't go around quoting this without some explanation. A company saying it voids the warranty doesn't mean much. I have no clue if it does cause acrylic to frost up or not... never happened to me but that doesn't mean a thing. [...]

I gave an explanation. As I wrote above, I've seen EG (labeled 'Ethylene Alcohol' at work) ruin a pretty thick piece of acrylic after only having been spread on and wiped off seconds later. It spiderwebbed / cracked it all up. I've seen denatured alcohol do exactly the same thing. Now in both cases it was a straight industrial-strength product, not dilute in any mixture, so take from that whatever you want.

In our 'sample shop' at work we fabricate new products and try to replicate the conditions for claims of damage to see whether they should be covered by our warranty or not (or if the fault of a supplier, passed off to them), and we've found that despite our acrylic suppliers' claims to the contrary, alcohol-based products can and will damage many types of acrylic. We also now have a similar disclaimer as Primochill does with any products that contain any acrylic that the use of any alcohol-based products/additives including ethylene glycol will void their warranty.

Like I already said: "I wouldn't use any additives with propylene or ethylene glycol, or any alcohol-based products" on acrylic anything, but that's just me sharing my 2 cents. I personally wouldn't do it. You do what you want and what you think works best for you.

Edit:

FWIW I did manage to find a post here on OCN by someone showing the same type of damage to their acrylic res done by using 'alcohol' as I have seen done with ethylene alcohol and denatured alcohol ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by prtuc2 View Post

[...]
When buying reservoir make sure you got enough space to fit. Some reservoir are design for certain pump only, so make sure you read everything through before making a purchase. Note: any acrylic product do not put alcohol inside or in contact with or else the acrylic product became dry and cracks. Here is an image with alcohol on acrylic product

I assume that was done by someone trying to clean a res with straight 'alcohol' of some type (isopropyl or denatured most likely). And maybe it is the case that something like that will never happen when dilute in distilled/deionized water or however prescribed for use as an anti-corrosive agent in your loop, but I personally cannot think that any type of alcohol is good for acrylic and I personally wouldn't trust it in any mixture of any amount.
Edited by Unicr0nhunter - 10/8/13 at 1:27am
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
If your coloring your coolant with food coloring, the coloring is based on propylene glycol so I'm sure that will be enough glycol in my loop to help with lubrication or corrosion without actually added straight glycol.
post #14 of 17
to answer the user direct question -

Propylene Glycol Mixing Guide



Ethylene Glycol Mixing Guide



As little as 5% mix Ratio will work on both So 50ml of PG or EG to 950ml of water. If you don't include extra biocides and Inhibitor though you kind of wasting you time and just raising the temp of you water for no reason (unless OFC your just aiming to lower your systems temps below ambient).
Edited by Mayhem - 10/21/13 at 10:16am
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by opus malice View Post

If your coloring your coolant with food coloring, the coloring is based on propylene glycol so I'm sure that will be enough glycol in my loop to help with lubrication or corrosion without actually added straight glycol.

I'm confused by what your saying... the coloring is based on propylene glycol?

Just wondering what you mean. Sorry


Also on the picture of the cracked swiftech reservoir... that has nothing to do with EG or PG... that was most definitely NOT caused by EG or PG. You could poor straight PURE EG in that res and that would not happen... then to mix only 5-10% EG it would NEVER EVER EVER happen.

Thanks for the propaganda though. I'm not sure why you are thinking that all "alcohol based" products behave the same. That has never been the case in chemistry... again just a perfect example... isopropyl alcohol NOT A LUBRICANT... Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol LUBRICANTS. What is typically refered to as alcohol = flammable... EG and PG not very flammable. They are not the same thing they are not even similar. Could pure EG cause damage to some acrylic... sure I don't doubt that. Will highly diluted EG ever cause damage to any acrylic I doubt it.
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post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 
Sorry i didnt mean the coloring was based on the gycol i meant the product is. At the least the stuff i have. Its the ingredient with the largest quanity.
post #17 of 17
Do you mean the PG you have is colored? I am sorry to if I am still confused. You can get clear PG. If it isn't clear then it is most likely that much more than just coloring is added to it. I still think EG is the way to go. Even at a very small concentration if you rub it around on your fingers it is very slick and does well at killing algae. As far as it's incompatibility with acrylic that is horse fodder. I would have no problem pooring concentrate additive into 3 different acrylic reservoirs and leaving it for a few days if that made people feel better then once you add water sorry but water + EG just isn't going to damage any quality acrylic (acrylic usually use EG in the manufacturing process to begin with).

If the only PG you can get your hands on is colored and you insist on using PG then look to maybe a equestrian, pet or farm supply store or something like that for clear PG usually sold in the gallon for ~$20 in the US. Like I said though... not my go to chemical. I would go for Mayhem's XT-1, fesser base, or dazmode protector. I believe the Mayhem's XT-1 comes in a clear as well as many colors.
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