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Help with Asus K8V-SE Deluxe/Athlon64 3000+ OC'ing....Newbie eager to learn!

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi Everyone,

I am new to overclocking and I have been in touch with some folks via PM on some starters. I am VERY eager to learn how to do this...my goal...well to better understand this rig that I have and to apply this to a future computer that I will build from the bottom up...THE RIGHT WAY...from information I learn here!

Here goes.....

My specs are posted in the post (great feature BTW kudos OC.net!). I am experimenting with overclocking the chip/mem right now. I have done some limited OC'ing of my Radeon 9800XT with ATI Tools and now have the urge to do more!

I have several tools at my disposal recommended by folks here. They are CPUZ, Everest Home (thanks Cyberdruid this prog rocks!), MBM5 (invaluable for temps quickly), ATI Tool 0.26. This has allowed me to see certain details on my system that I was not aware of before.

I am getting better at understanding the BIOS but am not fully aware of what is going on with some of the things inside it. I have already made a backup of it, placed it on floppy, and also can use the ASUS CD that came with the MOBO as well in case things go astray.

Some folks gave me some pretty good advice and I am going to post that below in the next post.

I cant wait to start this process.....I am an eager student so BRING IT ON!!!! Cant wait to begin!

Regards!
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post #2 of 15
Some good reading...
http://www.overclock.net/faqs/31782-...pu-memory.html
Do remember that was written for 939 systems so disregard the 5x200=1000 for the HTT
and that your MB uses 800 for the 4x, 600 for the 3x, etc.. and you want to keep below 800MHz by rule of thumb but most 754 MB's HTT can go much higher.

That link explanes how to find the limits of the MB, the CPU, and the RAM as seperate devices so you can apply that to the OCing.
    
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post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Here's where you have some options... AMD uses something called Hyper Transport or HT. Depending on the board your HT is either a total speed of 1600 (old stuff) or 2000 (new stuff) this is reportedin BIOS as 1/2 that (i.e 800 or 1000). That number can be derived by applying the HT Multiplier (as revealed in BIOS--usually 4X on older boards, 5X on new boards) to the FSB. Here's an example. say you want something a bit over 2100mhz for the CPU. Advabce the FSB to 333, set the CPU multi to 6.5 (if available) to arrive at 2164--if you have a mobo supporting 2000mhz HT set the HT to 3 and arrive at 999 reported (1998 on the board). We still need to factor in the RAM speed to this.

That is called a divider. The BIOS allows you to "lock" the RAM at an artificially low (or high) speed in ratio to the FSB. As you increase the FSB the RAM also increases speed. When the RAM runs too fast it fails and can even be destroyed. So for Max Overclocking the safest method is to take the RAM down to it's lowest speed--but for gradually samll increases like what you are likely to be doing it is safe to simply drop the RAM down one notch lower on the divider. At stock the RAM is likely running 2:2 meaning for every mhz the FSB increase the RAM increase. Lowering the Divider simply puts a ratio on that increase--the RAM still increases, but not at a 1 to1 ratio.

Where this gets complicated is that it is possible to get the RAM to work at higher speeds by adjusting the parameters of the way it shuffles the data. these are called timings. To get RAM to run faster than spec you usually will need to increase the Voltage and loosen the timings. Loosening the timings means giving the RAM more cycles to shuffle the data--so if your RAM is stock DDR 400 with a spec timing of1T 2.5 2 2 5 you might have to start off loosening it to 1T 3 3 3 8--then if that doesnot prove stable increas the VDimm onew notch in BIOS--if still eneding stability then try going to 2T instead of 1T but thaat creates a big performance hit as the RAM now waits 2 entire timing events before acting...which helps if it is pushed to the ragged edge.

Usually it is best to buy really fast RAM with really tight timings for Really big bucks...but OCing is all about getting the most from what you have.

I will now nudge you toward my good friend the Duke.



Ok so here I go. I have determined that I have the "old" stuff...my HT is 800Mhz in BIOS.

Still am a bit confused as to what the multiplier is. I understand that the CPU speed = FSB * Multiplier but I have yet to see that in the BIOS.

The Bios allows me to set the FSB from 200mhz upwards to 215 MHZ in 1 Mhz increments.

If you don't have apost going get one started
We can work this there.
One note...
the 800,600,400,200 is the memory multiplyer for the HTT.
800=4x
600=3x
400=2x
200=1x
You want to keep the overall HTT onder check.
Default =4x200MHz=800
Many 754 MB can go well past 800MHz but there is a point where instability will rear it's ugly head.
Use 3 x (or 600) with a CPU bus up to about 266-270, beyond that drop to 2x


Now after I received this message from The Duke (thanks btw) it is starting to make some sense. But I am missing the rest of the equation. I am assuming it is in the RAM area. What I am left for choices in my BIOS are:

1:1 (DDR 200)
4:3 (DDR 266)
3:2
5:3 (DDR 333)
2:1 (DDR 400)

I am not sure that I can overclock this much with the settings that are shown in the BIOS.....I assume that there is a combo that I can come up with that will allow me to do it but I am just learning the BIOS now so please bear with me.

Still cannot figure the multiplier with what I have in the bios....pls help?
I think all the pieces are here I just cannot figure out how they go together.

==================

On another note...there is a setting in my BIOS under the Config SYstem/Freq/Voltage tab..."Peformance Mode" which has Auto, Standard, and Turbo. In Turbo the CPU goes up to 2050 mhz. I cannot access the Standard mode for some reason. Auto gets selected after I load defaults. Strange...EDIT...I managed to get in Standard mode...not sure what I did...LOL
Anyhow any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Regards!
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post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
The Duke,

Thanks for the link....will do some reading and experimenting on the numbers there....starting to make a bit of sense to me (relating the BIOS information to what I am reading here!).

Im jumping in head first!!!!

Regards

PS....I also have ECC memory...I am sure this makes a large difference here...I can turn that off in the BIOS...it is enabled now...any thoughts?
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post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttboy View Post





Now after I received this message from The Duke (thanks btw) it is starting to make some sense. But I am missing the rest of the equation. I am assuming it is in the RAM area. What I am left for choices in my BIOS are:

1:1 (DDR 200)
4:3 (DDR 266)
3:2
5:3 (DDR 333)
2:1 (DDR 400)

I am not sure that I can overclock this much with the settings that are shown in the BIOS.....I assume that there is a combo that I can come up with that will allow me to do it but I am just learning the BIOS now so please bear with me.

Still cannot figure the multiplier with what I have in the bios....pls help?
I think all the pieces are here I just cannot figure out how they go together.

==================

On another note...there is a setting in my BIOS under the Config SYstem/Freq/Voltage tab..."Peformance Mode" which has Auto, Standard, and Turbo. In Turbo the CPU goes up to 2050 mhz. I cannot access the Standard mode for some reason. Auto gets selected after I load defaults. Strange...EDIT...I managed to get in Standard mode...not sure what I did...LOL
Anyhow any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Regards!
RAM ratios (dividers) get tricky, darn if I didn't just do a half page on it a few days ago

DDR400 or 2:1 is because it runs default @ 200MHz and is dubbled to 400MHz because the bus is bidirectional ... like a lwo lane highway where cars go in both dirrections at the same speed.
So, if you increase the CPU bus from 200 to 250 the RAM's native speed also becomes 250 which is dubbled to 500MHz. If the RAM can not sustaine the CPU bus speed you need to adjust for that.
One way is to use a divider. This is where it get tricky.
Not only does the RAM start out at a slower spped than the default it only increases by that ratio relative to the CPU bus increases.
    
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post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
HEHEH.....I am jumping right in...LOL....OK...so here is what I have for my BIOS settings...you keep mentioning numbers that are WAY above what I have in my BIOS.

For example....for the CPU FSB freqs I can ONLY go up to 215 MHZ for the FSB.

I am also not entirely sure what the FSB multiplier does. I have been running the system and only changing one variable at a time. This has been the HTT from 800 to 600 to 400 to 200. In EVERY case the computer still shows the Real clock and effective clock on the FSB as 200 mhz. Not sure why this is the case.

In the BIOS setting I can select the FSB from 200 to 215 MHZ. I have set it at 201 and received a 2011 MHZ CPU value. This time the Effective clock for my memory bus properties is 201 mhz.

I moved the FSB value to 210 in the BIOS....NOW the Effective clock is at 210 on the FSB and my CPU MHZ is at 2101! There is a multiplier of 10 showing up on Everest stating that the CPU Mhz is (10 x 210)...this corresponds to the bump up in the FSB. What I am not understanding is where Everest is getting the 10 number at? AND what the HT bus accomplishes I guess.
I guess I am still at a loss as to what value the "multiplier" has....you know the 800 to 200 variation I can select. Could it be that my MOBO is compensating for something that I am doing?

Regards!
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post #7 of 15
Unsure why the FSB is showing that low a max bus speed.
Your MB uses a KT800 chip set which does not lock the PCI/AGP bus speeds and can be a pain in OCing. OCing the CPU causes the PCI/AGP bus to also increase and that brings instability
    
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post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
me either on the FSB only going to 215.....Really couldnt tell you why....will try to call ASUS and ask tomorrow if I can.

Still learning it all and taking it in......I will have a mess more questions later....running some bench's now to see if there is a perceptible difference between the OC and non OC.

Thanks again for all the help Duke....it really makes a difference!
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post #9 of 15
We all do what we can to share the knowledge
    
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post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
OMG.....LOL.....I am an idiot........It only goes up to 215 MHZ because that is all the screen shows....hehehehe.....soooooooooooo.....I scrolled down and it goes much higher.....I am attempting to just bump up the FSB freqs and seeing what happens. I bench after each run...using 3dmark 05.

Any suggestions for benchmarking? Progs?

==================
Ok New Data....I pushed the FSB up to 240 at 600mhz and 400 mhz....both times computer boots well and Everest shows that the cpu is now an Athlon 64 3400+!!!! Pretty cool but when I run 3dmark05 the puter decides to lock on me.

Question....How hot can the chip get with stock cooling before I destroy it....LOL.....?

Regards
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NEW BUILD 2009
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