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[MOD] LGA775 Support For LGA771 Xeon CPUs - Page 292

post #2911 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

1. You can tell your CPU is bottlenecking your GPU when GPU usage is below 95ish%.

2. Ah so you are one of the "120 FPS or I am laggin'" types. Get a 4770k, enable hyperthreading and overclock it to 4.8 GHz. Since "120 FPS or I am laggin'" types often find even the 4770k way too slow and money is not an issue, you may want to buy a Core i7 Extreme 4960X and overclock it to 5 GHz. You can also buy two additional 780's and run triple SLI with an X79 motherboard.

3. I was gaming at 30ish FPS both with my QX9650 and my 4770k. Movies are set to run at around 35 FPS, so anything over 35ish FPS is meaningless. There is no additional performance going above 35ish FPS. You just think there is. It's all in your head. Oh and, when you watch a movie there is no lag. A movie runs at 35 FPS, ergo 35ish FPS is not laggy.

4. QX9650@4GHz---->4770k is 99% the same. Upgrading your CPU won't get you any faster load times. Sorry to disappoint you. A SSD will though.

5. You can use passmark to benchmark your CPU at 3,6GHz and 4.3 GHz. https://www.passmark.com/ This will help you note the difference between 3.6 GHz and 4.3 GHz.

6. When you stutter, you are into single digit FPS territory, i.e. below 10 FPS.

7. I upgraded from a QX9650@4.1 GHz to a 4770k@ stock. It is 99% the same. The "1%" that's different concerns certain battles at Rome II: Total War 1920X0180 ULTRA where there are thousands of high resolution units on the map. Under such conditions, my QX9650@4.1 GHz used to occasionally dip below 10 FPS. It was fine 99% of the time though for my gaming needs.

TLDR: "120 FPS or I'm laggin' types find the 4770k too slow. I recommend you go for a Core i7 Extreme 4960X.

come on man get real... I'm not going to spend $3000 on a computer... theres more to life than computers... not that much of a nerd.. I just want smooth gameplay (60fps constant) on ultra settings... theres a reason I PC game over console... if I want bad graphix i'll go console

I was talking about maybe $1000... (that's including going water cooled and new case) and yes I can get up to 120 fps by turning down some settings... I just went back into game on insane settings with everything turned up as high as it goes and I get 30-60 fps... I don't know what games you play, but 30 fps is way more laggy and stutters than it does at 60 fps... 60 fps is smooth for me... anything below 50 gets laggy and stutters and becomes hard to aim at other players and be on point...makes me look bad ingame... titanfall is a shooter so smooth gameplay counts.. its not like WoW and rome where you can have all the lag in the world and still be good...

so you saw no difference in going to 4770k over the q9650? wow, and you were telling me to upgrade?

but there is one thing you said above that wasn't offensive that I might be able to tell if cpu is bottlenecking gpu.... my gpu never goes above 60% usuage in game... it hovers around 40-50% usuage and occasionally shoots up to 60%.. so my gpu is never 90% underload... thing is my cpu isn't 100% load either... that's where I'm confused
post #2912 of 12379
1. You do not stutter when you game at 30ish FPS. You stutter when you dip below 10 FPS.

2. $1k Budget: Get a 4770k (hyperthreading is useful for BF4 possibly Titanfall)+Asus Maximus VI Hero+8GB CL9 DDR3.

3. I recommended you upgrade b/c you were not satisfied from the performance of your system. I was satisfied from the performance of my QX9650+Asus P5Q Deluxe. I only upgraded to get a good price for my former system at -ebay, as I did. My CPU was 7 years old already.

4. You *think* your CPU hovers around 60% usage. Actually, Core 0 and Core 2 are at 99-100% and Core 1 and Core 3 are at around 40%.

This is not rocket science. If your FPS is not capped and your GPU is NOT at 95%+ usage then your CPU is bottlenecking your GPU. Period.
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QX 9650: Retired
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post #2913 of 12379
@chrome-187 and Arxontas

Okay guys - fact is that a 2nd - 4th gen Core i CPU at the same clock speed IS faster than a Core 2 Quad.
For example a i5-2500K (2nd gen Core - Sandy Bridge) @stock (3.3GHz up to 3.7 turbo) is about 30-40% faster than a Core2Quad (45nm Yorkfield) @ 3.3GHz.
A third gen Ivy Bridge is only about 5% faster than a Sandy Bridge, and a 4th gen i5 is about 10-15% faster than a 2nd or 3rd gen.
So the difference between a Core2Quad and an up2date Haswell i5 at same clock speed is about 50% (!)
That if the application takes full advantage of the i5 CPU, like Battlefield 4 and maybe Titanfall (haven't tried that one yet).

So if you have a Haswell i5 and clock it to about 4GHz your Core2Quad will almost need around 6GHz to reach that i5.

Keep in mind that this doesn't count for every application or game that you use. Some games or applications only use one core, or two and some four and even more.

@chrome-187
But that shouldn't surprise you, does it? Or do you really think a about 6+ year old CPU (Core 2 Quad Yorkfield/Harpertown) will perform the same as a not even one year old Haswell i5 ?

And since your expectations and standpoint on when something is laggy are pretty high I think that person that told you that upgrading from an overclocked Core2Quad to an i5/i7 is not worth it didn't know all the facts. And the resolution performance mainly depends on your GPU, but yes, your CPU should be able to feed your GPU. That's called "GPU limit". So if you play in 2560x1440 with all eye candy on (max. details, high AA and AF) your graphic card will most likely be the limiting factor. The lower the resolutions and/or settings you choose the faster the better CPUs get. That's why in some reviews the CPU benchmarks are performend at 720p with medium details.
For a 770 and 780 1080p with all on should be more demanding on the GPU than the CPU. But as you stated that you get 100+FPS with V-Sync off but have drops down to 30 that's the fault of the CPU. The better the CPU the lower these drops should be.

I can't really follow you on your opinion that 30FPS are laggy, or at least that this doesn't count for all games. Some people were referring to high-FPS and low-FPS games and engines. Very fast shooters like Quake 3/4 and engines like the source engine (CS Source/Half Life 2) need more FPS to be played smooth and fast (like 60+ FPS or even more). Other games like Crysis 1 do not need high FPS to run smooth. Hell I even played Crysis 1 on my old single core Pentium M (overclocked to 2.6GHz) and my rusty GeForce 7900GT AGP (DirectX 9 but with mods to almost reach DX 10 optics) and only got around 20-30 FPS at 1280x1024 and still could play it very well.
I guess Titanfall needs high FPS to be played smooth and nicely so your only choices are reducing the details and maybe try to avoid these FPS drops with adjustments, or upgrade your system (CPU/mainboard ...)

A overclocked Core2Quad at about 4 GHz will be fine with a GTX 570/580 or 660/Ti. Everything above will boost the performance but will be limited or see drops. That's my opinion. (I have a X5460 @ 4GHz, EP45-UD3P, 8GB DDR2, GTX 680 DC2T [stock overclock])
Edited by Bucho - 4/6/14 at 11:00am
post #2914 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

@chrome-187 and Arxontas

Okay guys - fact is that a 2nd - 4th gen Core i CPU at the same clock speed IS faster than a Core 2 Quad.
For example a i5-2500K (2nd gen Core - Sandy Bridge) @stock (3.3GHz up to 3.7 turbo) is about 30-40% faster than a Core2Quad (45nm Yorkfield) @ 3.3GHz.
A third gen Ivy Bridge is only about 5% faster than a Sandy Bridge, and a 4th gen i5 is about 10-15% faster than a 2nd or 3rd gen.
So the difference between a Core2Quad and an up2date Haswell i5 at same clock speed is about 50% (!)
That if the application takes full advantage of the i5 CPU, like Battlefield 4 and maybe Titanfall (haven't tried that one yet).

So if you have a Haswell i5 and clock it to about 4GHz your Core2Quad will almost need around 6GHz to reach that i5.

Keep in mind that this doesn't count for every application or game that you use. Some games or applications only use one core, or two and some four and even more.

@chrome-187
But that shouldn't surprise you, does it? Or do you really think a about 6+ year old CPU (Core 2 Quad Yorkfield/Harpertown) will perform the same as a not even one year old Haswell i5 ?

And since your expectations and standpoint on when something is laggy are pretty high I think that person that told you that upgrading from an overclocked Core2Quad to an i5/i7 is not worth it didn't know all the facts. And the resolution performance mainly depends on your GPU, but yes, your CPU should be able to feed your GPU. That's called "GPU limit". So if you play in 2560x1440 with all eye candy on (max. details, high AA and AF) your graphic card will most likely be the limiting factor. The lower the resolutions and/or settings you choose the faster the better CPUs get. That's why in some reviews the CPU benchmarks are performend at 720p with medium details.
For a 770 and 780 1080p with all on should be more demanding on the GPU than the CPU. But as you stated that you get 100+FPS with V-Sync off but have drops down to 30 that's the fault of the CPU. The better the CPU the lower these drops should be.

I can't really follow you on your opinion that 30FPS are laggy, or at least that this doesn't count for all games. Some people were referring to high-FPS and low-FPS games and engines. Very fast shooters like Quake 3/4 and engines like the source engine (CS Source/Half Life 2) need more FPS to be played smooth and fast (like 60+ FPS or even more). Other games like Crysis 1 do not need high FPS to run smooth. Hell I even played Crysis 1 on my old single core Pentium M (overclocked to 2.6GHz) and my rusty GeForce 7900GT AGP (DirectX 9 but with mods to almost reach DX 10 optics) and only got around 20-30 FPS at 1280x1024 and still could play it very well.
I guess Titanfall needs high FPS to be played smooth and nicely so your only choices are reducing the details and maybe try to avoid these FPS drops with adjustments, or upgrade your system (CPU/mainboard ...)

A overclocked Core2Quad at about 4 GHz will be fine with a GTX 570/580 or 660/Ti. Everything above will boost the performance but will be limited or see drops. That's my opinion. (I have a X5460 @ 4GHz, EP45-UD3P, 8GB DDR2, GTX 680 DC2T [stock overclock])

yea bro if you played titanfall you would know that 30fps is laggy... I've been gaming on pc for 13 years so I know what lag is... I think its pretty obvious to see lag from smooth gameplay... with titanfall 30fps is laggy... google it if you don't believe me...

for some reason I can't get any higher than 60 fps now... the game is capping @ 60fps... yea I had a gut feeling before I cut up and shredded my cpu socket to fit the 771 cpu my evga 775 board that I should have just upgraded my whole rig... I'm wondering if cutting up my cpu socket lowered the resale value of my 780i motherboard..i mean really bro, if I don't have to spend $1000 I wont, you know? it isn't like I like to throw money away... I do have 3 kids to support so... that's why I went with the x5460... was also told on a forum the core i5/i7 will only boost my fps by 5-10 at most... to me that's not worth $1000...

I've been trying to google if titanfall uses hyper threading but I can't find whether it does or not...
post #2915 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrome-187 View Post

yea bro if you played titanfall you would know that 30fps is laggy... I've been gaming on pc for 13 years so I know what lag is... I think its pretty obvious to see lag from smooth gameplay... with titanfall 30fps is laggy... google it if you don't believe me...

for some reason I can't get any higher than 60 fps now... the game is capping @ 60fps... yea I had a gut feeling before I cut up and shredded my cpu socket to fit the 771 cpu my evga 775 board that I should have just upgraded my whole rig... I'm wondering if cutting up my cpu socket lowered the resale value of my 780i motherboard..i mean really bro, if I don't have to spend $1000 I wont, you know? it isn't like I like to throw money away... I do have 3 kids to support so... that's why I went with the x5460... was also told on a forum the core i5/i7 will only boost my fps by 5-10 at most... to me that's not worth $1000...

I've been trying to google if titanfall uses hyper threading but I can't find whether it does or not...


Titan Fall Caps to your monitor's refrech rate. So if you only have a 60hz monitor, it will cap at 60. If you have a 96/120hz monitor it will cap at those frame rates.


Also the 780i chipset Sucks. I used to have a EVGA 780i board, hated it for 45nm Intel Quads. Worked great on a Q6600 but anything 45nm just forget about it. The 780i chipset is nothing more then a overclocked 680i chipset, Not only that but the board uses the NF200 chip to give users pci-e 2.0, as the chipset doesn't support real pci-e 2.0. So from the NB to the NF200 you get a slow connection with added latency and any card connected to the NF200 gets to share that 2.0 speed. Really it is a horrid board with fsb holes and stability problems when pushing a high FSB. Also has really bad v-droop and needs to be pencil modded.


The 771 to 775 mod is good for someone with a good p45 board like a ep45-ud3p, but something like the 780i chipset should just be passed up.

Sell the 780i for as much as you can get and look for a upgrade. Maybe a used 1155 platform? Though your 780i board is doing fairly well.


As for me My old Q9550 still is kicking in my HTPC with my ud3p, @ 4ghz it tends to game better then my brothers i3 3220. His CPU can score slightly better in single thread but my q9550 kills his i3 in multithread. My Q9550 under 3.6ghz starts to bottleneck my gtx470 though. Also 4gb of ram is starting to become a problem with newer games, upgrading to 8gb of ddr2 is expensive.
Edited by DzillaXx - 4/6/14 at 12:16pm
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Red Dragon
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post #2916 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Titan Fall Caps to your monitor's refrech rate. So if you only have a 60hz monitor, it will cap at 60. If you have a 96/120hz monitor it will cap at those frame rates.


Also the 780i chipset Sucks. I used to have a EVGA 780i board, hated it for 45nm Intel Quads. Worked great on a Q6600 but anything 45nm just forget about it. The 780i chipset is nothing more then a overclocked 680i chipset, Not only that but the board uses the NF200 chip to give users pci-e 2.0, as the chipset doesn't support real pci-e 2.0. So from the NB to the NF200 you get a slow connection with added latency and any card connected to the NF200 gets to share that 2.0 speed. Really it is a horrid board with fsb holes and stability problems when pushing a high FSB. Also has really bad v-droop and needs to be pencil modded.


The 771 to 775 mod is good for someone with a good p45 board like a ep45-ud3p, but something like the 780i chipset should just be passed up.

Sell the 780i for as much as you can get and look for a upgrade. Maybe a used 1155 platform? Though your 780i board is doing fairly well.


As for me My old Q9550 still is kicking in my HTPC with my ud3p, @ 4ghz it tends to game better then my brothers i3 3220. His CPU can score slightly better in single thread but my q9550 kills his i3 in multithread. My Q9550 under 3.6ghz starts to bottleneck my gtx470 though. Also 4gb of ram is starting to become a problem with newer games, upgrading to 8gb of ddr2 is expensive.

yea thanks bro... yea my board is doing fairly well I agree on that... like I said I'm very happy with my overclock... I love my setup, it will actually be hard to part with... and I do have 8gb of ddr2 and a very newer card at a 780 gtx....

IF my cpu and mobo and ram are not bottlenecking my GPU I will not upgrade... but if it is bottlenecking my GPU, a very expensive GTX 780 than my upgrade to the GTX 780 was stupid... I want to make sure my $500 investment is not being held back by any of my current hardware... but on another note, if my current setup is not bottlenecking my GTX 780 I will not upgrade... I do like to kinda brag I got my xeon x5460 o/ced to 4.27 ghz 1800 fsb... kinda makes me feel good...not very many people on this thread even can get to that o/c stable... but if I have to brake up with her (my current setup) and bring in another setup a little younger and newer and prettier than I guess that's what i'll have to do...
Edited by chrome-187 - 4/6/14 at 12:51pm
post #2917 of 12379
As I said I didn't play Titanfall yet and haven't looked at many benchmarks for it, but I believe that you you are annoyed by that 30 FPS drop. I am maybe like you not the youngest and have been playing games on the PC since my first 386SX back in 1991. I've played 3D games and shooter since Wolf3D (or even before that) and was amazed by Doom, Duke3D, Quake and went through the joy of the first great 3D accelerators (3DFX Voodoo) to see Quake in it's full glory, Half Life, Quake 2 aso. I've been playing network and internet based shooters and eventually even formed and joined clan based gaming (Quake 2 Lithium Mod if that says something to anyone here, Counter Strike since Beta 4.x and finally Quake 3 as well as Quake 3 Fortress). I always went for the highest FPS I could get, bought CRT monitors back then with 120Hz @ 1024x768 and pushed my graphics cards and CPUs to the limit.
Anyway it's everybodys own decision and opinion if they see something as laggy / unplayable aso.
I just wanted to point out that your system still can hold up pretty good, but your expectations in a almost 7 year old CPU/system is too high.

The 60 FPS limit could be because of VSync or maybe the engine itself limits it? Don't know how Titanfall handles that. I always used to disable VSync since it gives you the highest FPS you system can do at all times. The bad thing is that you get screen tearing if the FPS is too far from sync speed of your monitor.

And don't mind that modification, I don't want to bring you down but your board isn't worth much any way. Of course there are still people around that pay more than it's worth, but for me any Socket 775 board isn't worth more that 30 to maybe 40 EUR. (that's about 40-55 USD). Why is that? Well just look at the prices for new decent Socket 1150 boards. For less than 100 EUR you can get a good Z87 board. You have features like native SATA 6 ports, USB 3.0, PCI-Express 3.0 ...
And you don't have to go that expensive on CPUs either ... a stock i3-4130 is less than 100 EUR and should beat any Core2Quad or Xeon 54xx @ stock at most of the games and applications. If you go for a i5-4570 that's about 160 EUR (a little more than 200 USD) in most of the games you will not even come close even with a heavy overclocked Core2Quad/Xeon 54xx or with the downside of having low minimum FPS.
I am not trying to make a Xeon 54xx look bad, I still use one since it was cheap and I am still satisfied with the performance, but I'm beeing realistic about it that it is no high end gaming CPU anymore.
And maybe the average FPS that you get with a modern system isn't that much higher, but the minimum is the important thing. It doesn't help if my max. FPS are at 150 instead of 100 and my average are at 80 instead of 70 ... but it helps if my minimum are 45 instead of 30.

So if you don't want to spend a lot buy:
B85 chipset board of choice ~ 70 USD
i5-4570 ~ 210 USD
8 GB DDR3 1600 ~ 80 USD
---
that's a total of 360 USD for a good cheap gaming base.

If you want to overclock:
Z87 chipset board of choice ~ 120-140 USD
i5-4670K ~ 270 USD
8 GB DDR3 1600 ~ 80 USD
a nice air cooler like the Thermalright HR-02 Macho ~ 55 USD
---
that's a total of 525-545 USD for a great gaming system.

A i7 isn't really worth the money if it comes to gaming and price/performance. If you want the max. then you could go for an i7-4770K and maybe a better board but that will ramp up your budget.
And a socket 2011 system is even more expensive but will only give you a little more performance in games.


Oh and about Titanfall, I read that these two options heavily depend on CPU power, so maybe try to lower these and see if it helps you FPS drops:
Impact Marks and Ragdoll physics
Edited by Bucho - 4/6/14 at 12:57pm
post #2918 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrome-187 View Post

yea thanks bro... yea my board is doing fairly well I agree on that... like I said I'm very happy with my overclock... I love my setup, it will actually be hard to part with... and I do have 8gb of ddr2 and a very newer card at a 780 gtx....

IF my cpu and mobo and ram are not bottlenecking my GPU I will not upgrade... but if it is bottlenecking my GPU, a very expensive GTX 780 than my upgrade to the GTX 780 was stupid... I want to make sure my $500 investment is not being held back by any of my current hardware... but on another note, if my current setup is not bottlenecking my GTX 780 I will not upgrade... I do like to kinda brag I got my xeon x5460 o/ced to 4.27 ghz 1800 fsb... kinda makes me feel good...not very many people on this thread even can get to that o/c stable... but if I have to brake up with her (my current setup) and bring in another setup a little younger and newer and prettier than I guess that's what i'll have to do...

Personally I think the gtx780 is a little much for a old quad like your Xeon. Sure it will bottleneck your videocard, but not by a huge degree. And shouldn't have problems like Frame Drops ether. Just lowered frame rate compared to high end cpu's.

IMO I wouldn't have gotten anything more then a 280x/gtx770 for such a old chip.

I just wonder if the NF200 chip your board uses isn't bringing performance down more then it should. As (don't quote me on this) the NF200 takes PCI-e 1.0 and just turns it into 2.0 after the chip I Believe. So the link between your Videocard and your Northbridge really isn't any better then a pci-e 1.0 slot with added latency. Which wouldn't have been a problem back when 780i came out but when you toss a card like a gtx780 into your system that connection to the CPU could bring down performance more then usual. But this shouldn't cause massive frame drops, just lower frame rate.

I have yet to even try Titanfall on my old C2Q, but most other games run perfectly fine.

I would wait for future drive updates and game updates for titanfall as others that have even better CPU's have had problems with titanfall.
Edited by DzillaXx - 4/6/14 at 1:06pm
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Red Dragon
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post #2919 of 12379
Managed to mod ASUS P5K3 deluxe latest bios 1206,with xeon x5460,no problems except the bios message on boot "unrecognized cpu update latest bios to unleash its full power...
After that boots normal no problem,passed all test I ran,just that message in bios.As much I know I need a bios mod to avoid that message,so can anyone help me with that?
post #2920 of 12379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cudi View Post

I have an Asus P5K PRO mobo and Xeon E5450. Every time I turn on the pc appears the message: "to unleash this cpu full power please perform bios update process" . Can anyone add the microcodes to modify the bios?

Thanks for help thumb.gif

My latest bios is :

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5K_Pro/P5K-PRO-1303.zip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cudi View Post

I have an Asus P5K PRO mobo and Xeon E5450. Every time I turn on the pc appears the message: "to unleash this cpu full power please perform bios update process" . Can anyone add the microcodes to modify the bios?

Thanks for help thumb.gif

My latest bios is :

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5K_Pro/P5K-PRO-1303.zip

Somebody please
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