Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Console Gaming › Xbox › [GamingBolt]Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[GamingBolt]Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power - Page 5

post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post

You're forgetting one very important thing: price.

All the consoles you mentioned before, the N64 was more expensive. As is the Gamecube and the Xbox, on their launch year at least.
The difference this time is that the "more powerful" console on paper is cheaper and that by itself, is a big thing.

You may argue the PS3 was more expensive than the 360 too (and still is, technically), but credit where it is due... MS did better than Sony this gen, being the cheaper console. Even if the PS3 is selling better than the 360 right now.

MS did better ?? the PS3 sold more in the end (like 2 millions ahead now) and has more games

check the sales numbers
GTR-PC
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k 4.3Ghz  MSI Z77A-G45 EVGA GTX 770 4GB FTW Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Zotac SSD - WD 1TB (x2) Zalman Performa W10 64 Bits HP 2509 25" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sidewinder X6 Corsair TX650 CM Storm Enforcer Mionix Naos 3200 
Mouse Pad
CM Storm Battle Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
GTR-PC
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k 4.3Ghz  MSI Z77A-G45 EVGA GTX 770 4GB FTW Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Zotac SSD - WD 1TB (x2) Zalman Performa W10 64 Bits HP 2509 25" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sidewinder X6 Corsair TX650 CM Storm Enforcer Mionix Naos 3200 
Mouse Pad
CM Storm Battle Pad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

In 8GB modules for a realistic price?
Does it matter? This is hardware design for a system in 6-7 years in the future. They can expect memory prices to fall and they could have used more+smaller GDDR5 ICs for prototype machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinnuke View Post

I figured the ESRAM will probably be for AA in post processing or something along that lines. Xbox has Unified DDR3 while PS4 has Unified GDDR5. The big question for me is how different is it to program for GDDR5 at the hardware level than DDR3. It cant be the same or we'd all be running GDDR in our machines instead of DDR no?
Shouldn't be any difference from a developer's perspective since it's all virtual memory to them. The big difference is latency so there is some tuning of code to hide that.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinnuke View Post

I figured the ESRAM will probably be for AA in post processing or something along that lines. Xbox has Unified DDR3 while PS4 has Unified GDDR5. The big question for me is how different is it to program for GDDR5 at the hardware level than DDR3. It cant be the same or we'd all be running GDDR in our machines instead of DDR no?

At the lowest level, it would be different, so engine programmers may have to worry about it. But once the engine is there, devs never have to go that low.

I think most desktop applications aren't bandwidth limited at this time, so we don't really need GDDR5. In server applications that are limited by memory bandwidth, latency and power consumption are important, and that volume of memory is expensive, which is probably why they stay away from GDDR5. And heck, alot of laptops don't even come with dual channel DDR3 nowadays :/
Bruce
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Pro HIS 7950 IceQ X2 2x2gb + 2x4gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Seagate 1TB 7200RPM OCZ Agility 4 128GB PNY 240GB LG Blu Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Hyper 212+ with extra fan Windows 10 Education x64 Shimian QH270 @110hz Medieval Dell OEM Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 V1 Antec 300 Black Illusion  Logitech G400s Xonar ST 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Fostex T50rp with BMF mod Archer T9E Wifi adapter 2x Yate Loon D12SL-12D 120x38mm fans Thermalright TY-143 fan 
  hide details  
Reply
Bruce
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Pro HIS 7950 IceQ X2 2x2gb + 2x4gb DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Seagate 1TB 7200RPM OCZ Agility 4 128GB PNY 240GB LG Blu Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Hyper 212+ with extra fan Windows 10 Education x64 Shimian QH270 @110hz Medieval Dell OEM Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair TX750 V1 Antec 300 Black Illusion  Logitech G400s Xonar ST 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Fostex T50rp with BMF mod Archer T9E Wifi adapter 2x Yate Loon D12SL-12D 120x38mm fans Thermalright TY-143 fan 
  hide details  
Reply
post #44 of 47
Who cares as long the the games run well and look good!

GDDR5 vs DDR3 pfft is like saying an IPA is better than a Lager! Its beer! As long as it goes down smooth it doesn't matter!
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames21891 View Post

I'm no expert coder, but could anyone please tell me how, even ignoring the ESRAM, GDDR5 would be significantly more complicated to use than DDR3? Maybe I'm wrong (and please feel free to correct me if I am) but it's my understanding that the only major difference between the two is latency and bandwidth, correct? I'm aware of the more subtle differences, like DDR3 using a 64-bit controller and GDDR5 using 32-bit denominations, also how GDDR5 handles both read and write in the same cycle etc. but would that make any significant difference in code complexity? Or is it simply less well known and less experienced devs may have trouble perhaps?

Any way I look at it, I don't see GDDR5 being much of a hassle. But like I said, my programming skills are rather minute. I'm just looking at it from a hardware perspective. I admit I'm fallible, I could be completely off base. Seems entirely likely this is just a PR stunt bordering on an outright lie though.

They do explain in the article its about power consumption and cost. You're correct in that there's not much difference between them.

Bottom line is gddr5 is higher clock, drawing more power and thus increasing latency.

Microsoft went out early in design to have 8GB of RAM, the best solution at that time is what they have now. Sony was going for 4GB of GDDR5 and lucked out as the quantity wasn't a problem in the end.

Also Xbox One can do read writes at the same time

PS4 is easier, straight forward set up and Xbox One is very similar to the 360 and more flexible but still some restriction and complexity for devs. MS state no-one had a problem with the 360 but I would say that was in comparison a lot to the PS3 which is quite poorly set up. I agree though it shouldn't be a problem.

MS have evolved their concept and Sony have gone the complete opposite of PS3 and made it incrediblely simple.

Remains to be seen if MS have slightly too much restriction in there or got it just right for what the system can handle. PS4 could have nice specs in all areas but could also be a hastily put together and much of the GDDR5 bandwidth not really used and technically could be areas in the PS4 that could be tightened up.

Certainly the PS4 is better or more geared up for games but we see already these consoles are more than games machines now and MS have put some faith in Kinect and giving you a good slice of everything. Stats show this is what the people want and Sony could be behind once Xbox One's overall experience comes more known and capable with new needs and understanding using voice, gestures and features of a device, more so in all one device.
Edited by routek - 10/7/13 at 5:06pm
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsOS
i7 930  Asus P6X58D-E MSI GTX 970 Gaming Windows 10 64bit 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsOS
i7 930  Asus P6X58D-E MSI GTX 970 Gaming Windows 10 64bit 
  hide details  
Reply
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

In 8GB modules for a realistic price?

Sony has said that the PS4 will initially be sold at a pretty big loss...
post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhollywood5 View Post

Sony has said that the PS4 will initially be sold at a pretty big loss...

That's not what I heard. Sonys vice president stated that the console will be sold at a loss but said loos is so small that if the person buys a single game and signs up for PS Plus for a year then they break even. So I would say Sony certainly not selling their machine with a "big loss".

Source --> http://www.geek.com/games/sony-will-sell-every-ps4-at-a-loss-but-easily-recoup-it-in-games-ps-plus-sales-1571335/
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Xbox
Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Console Gaming › Xbox › [GamingBolt]Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power