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post #9491 of 9745
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBillyQuizBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoReaper View Post

ASIC might be irrelevant but XFX's excuses for why they won't fix my cards buggy bios is irrelevant.

Strange. I bought a used card of ebay, sent it in for RMA, they couldn't find anything wrong with it but replaced it anyway.

What was their explanation? I'm thinking of sticking with them since I was pretty impressed with their customer service.
Well firstly the card is about to hit 2 years old since I got it and secondly my card was shipped to me without its Warranty sticker attached to the PCB and I never noticed.
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post #9492 of 9745
I have some specific needs in a video card for an older computer. I purchased a couple of cards that were too new and didn't support support the BIOS in my older computers. I'm building another old computer that has Crossfire support. For now Ill be using a pair of HD6970s I already have. I'm looking for the most powerful video cards that are compatible with my old architecture. The HD7970, and related R9-280X look like they might be what I need.
I've made a hobby of overclocking old Dell BTX computers. Specifically LGA775 stuff.
This means locked BIOS, no aftermarket cooling parts available, Legacy BIOS usually. PCIE 16x 2.x ,and SATA 3GB speed.

The problem I've had in the past is with R9-285 ITX cards.
First problem is they don't support VESA video mode 103. So can't open my BIOS Setup screen.
The second problem is I can't Crossfire them because the ITX cards are a little thicker than normal 2 slot cards and there's no room for airflow into the second card.
The Sapphire cards I used have a dual BIOS switch, so they're not only compatible but future proof also. (Except for VESA 103 issue.)

The VESA mode 103 issue seems to have started with the R series cards. I know of 1 person who Crossfired a pair of HD7850s in the same computer I'm working on. So I think HD7970 should work. I've seem reports that HD7970 can Crossfire with R9-280X also.

Here's what I think I need.
1- Legacy BIOS support, preferably Dual BIOS.
2- Vesa mode 103 to display Dell BIOS screen. (AMD says GCN cards don't support this.) HD7xxx seems good for this.
3- Crossfire bridge connection due to PCIe v.2.0 speed.
4- More than 2 GB memory would be nice

I've tried AMD, Sapphire, and the usual BIOS mod suspects ( MB, and GPU ) and haven't found a solution.

My last project was a Dell Dimension E520. This Pentium 4 era beast ran a QX6800 at speeds up to 4 GHZ (validation only) and at 3.72GHz, and with an R9-285 scored 7000 in Firestrike (58% rating). See link in my sig.

My current project is a 1 year newer Dell Precision T3400 workstation. It supports QX9650, and 2- PCIe 16x full speed slots. VESA mode 103 still applies. I will probably start out with a QX6800, and HD6970s. this will tell me a lot about the MB VRM and cooling system mods.

Any advice on which video cards would be suitable for this would be appreciated. Especially any Brands that don't support my requirements.
Edited by Retrorockit - 5/31/16 at 11:09am
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post #9493 of 9745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post

I have some specific needs in a video card for an older computer. I purchased a couple of cards that were too new and didn't support support the BIOS in my older computers. I'm building another old computer that has Crossfire support. For now Ill be using a pair of HD6970s I already have. I'm looking for the most powerful video cards that are compatible with my old architecture. The HD7970, and related R9-280X look like they might be what I need.
I've made a hobby of overclocking old Dell BTX computers. Specifically LGA775 stuff.
This means locked BIOS, no aftermarket cooling parts available, Legacy BIOS usually. PCIE 16x 2.x ,and SATA 3GB speed.

The problem I've had in the past is with R9-285 ITX cards.
First problem is they don't support VESA video mode 103. So can't open my BIOS Setup screen.
The second problem is I can't Crossfire them because the ITX cards are a little thicker than normal 2 slot cards and there's no room for airflow into the second card.
The Sapphire cards I used have a dual BIOS switch, so they're not only compatible but future proof also. (Except for VESA 103 issue.)

The VESA mode 103 issue seems to have started with the R series cards. I know of 1 person who Crossfired a pair of HD7850s in the same computer I'm working on. So I think HD7970 should work. I've seem reports that HD7970 can Crossfire with R9-280X also.

Here's what I think I need.
1- Legacy BIOS support, preferably Dual BIOS.
2- Vesa mode 103 to display Dell BIOS screen. (AMD says GCN cards don't support this.) HD7xxx seems good for this.
3- Crossfire bridge connection due to PCIe v.2.0 speed.
4- More than 2 GB memory would be nice

I've tried AMD, Sapphire, and the usual BIOS mod suspects ( MB, and GPU ) and haven't found a solution.

My last project was a Dell Dimension E520. This Pentium 4 era beast ran a QX6800 at speeds up to 4 GHZ (validation only) and at 3.72GHz, and with an R9-285 scored 7000 in Firestrike (58% rating). See link in my sig.

My current project is a 1 year newer Dell Precision T3400 workstation. It supports QX9650, and 2- PCIe 16x full speed slots. VESA mode 103 still applies. I will probably start out with a QX6800, and HD6970s. this will tell me a lot about the MB VRM and cooling system mods.

Any advice on which video cards would be suitable for this would be appreciated. Especially any Brands that don't support my requirements.

Cool hobby.
Quote:
I use a specific GTX 960 and it works just fine in my Precision T3400. I do have problems with ATI R Series like the R7 260X where they wont go into cmos setup complaining that they cannot do DOS VESA Mode 103.

EVGA 02G-P4-2966-KR GTX 960 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card
from http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19642933

Everything suggests R7 and R9 won't work for vesa 103. I wasn't aware of that too.
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post #9494 of 9745
Time to upgrade maybe? Do similar NV cards support your needed Vesa 103 prehistoric mode? 800x600x256 colors, for real?
post #9495 of 9745
Yes NVidia cards don't have the VESA 103 issue. But then I would have to figure out the SLI vs Crossfire issue. I'm hoping the HD7xxx DNA of the R9-280 specifically might work in my favor. Just to be clear this is a video card BIOS issue, and not drivers. I would love to SLI a pair of GTX 960s, or 970s. But I already have the HD6970s to play with, and a 850W PSU also.

I post at Tomshardware and one of the most common questions is what GPU can I put in the old refurbished Dell I just bought. There are literally millions of these computers out there. I was very happy with the price/performance of the R9-285 ITX card and the fact that it almost fits in a Micro BTX. The R9-280X is slightly faster than the 285 and the 285 doesn't have the Crossfire bridge I would need.

Dell forums is moderated by Dell employees and they will take down posts that help upgrade their older computers. They took down one page that listed Q9650 CPU compatibility for the Optiplex 780 when they only sold them with Q6700. So you can post problems with old computers, but don't look for solutions there. Last time I tried to log on there my account was marked "read only". Dell also will not help support the use of non Dell parts.

This is their reply to my request for help with the VESA 103 issue.

"That $300 video card is for a high powered, much faster and much more recent computer. The E520 is an obsolete model now and cannot run that card. You should return the card and put that money towards a new computer. You can buy a new computer now that cost less than the video card."

I paid $170 for the ITX 2 GB R9-285. But it was 1/2 step too far I think.

The T3400 has a X38 chipset which is not listed for the HD6,HD7, and R series cards, yet Justajohn at Toms got 4.15GHz and 7500 in Firestrike with a QX9650, and 2- HD7850s. Sometimes you just have to find out for yourself what works and what doesn't.

The T3400 IS my upgrade!
Edited by Retrorockit - 5/31/16 at 1:03pm
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post #9496 of 9745
You don't really want to touch those DELLs, they are closed proprietary system much like Apple and their proprietary hardware that is quite comparable to DELL these days since both use modern PC parts just custom mobos and other stuff to lock the platform down and prevent easy upgrading.
You can build a cheap recent PC no problem. Those DELLs are for business, say government, schools and such and when you have to touch them at those places you often wanna take a hammer and wreck that piece of slow crap biggrin.gif
post #9497 of 9745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post

Yes NVidia cards don't have the VESA 103 issue. But then I would have to figure out the SLI vs Crossfire issue. I'm hoping the HD7xxx DNA of the R9-280 specifically might work in my favor. Just to be clear this is a video card BIOS issue, and not drivers. I would love to SLI a pair of GTX 960s, or 970s. But I already have the HD6970s to play with, and a 850W PSU also.

I post at Tomshardware and one of the most common questions is what GPU can I put in the old refurbished Dell I just bought. There are literally millions of these computers out there. I was very happy with the price/performance of the R9-285 ITX card and the fact that it almost fits in a Micro BTX. The R9-280X is slightly faster than the 285 and the 285 doesn't have the Crossfire bridge I would need.

Dell forums is moderated by Dell employees and they will take down posts that help upgrade their older computers. They took down one page that listed Q9650 CPU compatibility for the Optiplex 780 when they only sold them with Q6700. So you can post problems with old computers, but don't look for solutions there. Last time I tried to log on there my account was marked "read only". Dell also will not help support the use of non Dell parts.

This is their reply to my request for help with the VESA 103 issue.

"That $300 video card is for a high powered, much faster and much more recent computer. The E520 is an obsolete model now and cannot run that card. You should return the card and put that money towards a new computer. You can buy a new computer now that cost less than the video card."

I paid $170 for the ITX 2 GB R9-285. But it was 1/2 step too far I think.

The T3400 has a X38 chipset which is not listed for the HD6,HD7, and R series cards, yet Justajohn at Toms got 4.15GHz and 7500 in Firestrike with a QX9650, and 2- HD7850s. Sometimes you just have to find out for yourself what works and what doesn't.

The T3400 IS my upgrade!

You might get away with 280x is basically being 7970 but you never know if they restrict things in bios. Some 7970s accept 280x bios. Vice versa could also be true but you need to get a cheap one to justify if it goes south. r9 285 is a good card despite the 2gb memory. It's gcn 1.2 (280x is gcn 1.0) It has more ACEs which matter in dx12 and it'll likely to edge out 280x in the future. The lack of 1gb doesn't matter because it has better compression thus needs less space for textures.
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post #9498 of 9745
My Dell belongs to ME. It's out of warranty, and Dell is not responsible for any thing that happens with it now. It started out as a home computer with 2.3GHz Core2Duo and 2GB RAM,with 256mb GPU. I'm retired and I could build a new computer in about an hour or so. It would be just like everyone else's computer. As far as I can tell I have the only Dell Dimension E520 That's gone 4GHz. Open the link in my sig. then click on the image there. You will see where I'm at related to other QX6800s. I have to discover or invent my cooling systems. I don't care if it takes weeks, or even months to figure something out. The LGA 775s are obsolete in the business environment and are being scrapped by the thousands. There are a lot of people who get them for little or nothing and want to upgrade them. When computers are out of warranty, or off of service contract, businesses don't want them anymore.

I mostly post in LGA775 club where my E520 isn't OT. I'd really like to hear some replies about the R9-280, HD7970 features that interest me, and less about how old my computer is. I also post in Delta Fanatics forum.
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post #9499 of 9745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post

You might get away with 280x is basically being 7970 but you never know if they restrict things in bios. Some 7970s accept 280x bios. Vice versa could also be true but you need to get a cheap one to justify if it goes south. r9 285 is a good card despite the 2gb memory. It's gcn 1.2 (280x is gcn 1.0) It has more ACEs which matter in dx12 and it'll likely to edge out 280x in the future. The lack of 1gb doesn't matter because it has better compression thus needs less space for textures.

Yes I think it might work. The 285 was the right card for the Micro BTX cases, and very few old Dells are going to be running with over 1080p monitors anyway. It was perfect except for the VESA 103 issue. It was a nice step up from theGTX750 that's kind of marginal really.
But now The thickness of the card keeps it from being good in my Crossfire setup ( I own 2 of them and tried it for fit), and no Crossfire bridge means it needs PCIe 3.0 so I'm looking for something equivalent that won't have the BIOS issue. It actually kind of funny to be locked out of a BIOS that's locked in the first place. I can probably set everything up with the 6970s than use a card that blocks the BIOS anyway. But I couldn't recomend it to others. I just order 3 128GB SSDs today.($40 each). I can run 3 way RAID 0 and add 1 HDD for backup in RAID1. But if I go Crossfire I should probably break the 1080p barrier at the same time. Maybe an HD7970 with a 280X in Crossfire. Then I could find out what's up with VESA 103 by switching them.

Maybe I should get the 280X first and see if VESA 103 is there. Then choose the second card based on that. I could contact tech support and see what they have to say about it first. I'm not the first one to have this problem, but I might be the only one that's going to bother to solve it.
Edited by Retrorockit - 5/31/16 at 2:57pm
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Delta 2 motor fan 120X50mm 3.4A. GFB1212VHG Windows7 64 bit Dell 23'' flat screen Logitech backlit wireless 
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Crucial M500 SSD 240GB Asus DVDRW TSST DVDRW Dell 3 heatpipe BTX tower cooler, 
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Delta 2 motor fan 120X50mm 3.4A. GFB1212VHG Windows7 64 bit Dell 23'' flat screen Logitech backlit wireless 
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EVGA Supernova B2 750W Dell Dimension E520 mini tower Logitech wireless Asus DG PCI 
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post #9500 of 9745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post

Yes I think it might work. The 285 was the right card for the Micro BTX cases, and very few old Dells are going to be running with over 1080p monitors anyway. It was perfect except for the VESA 103 issue. It was a nice step up from theGTX750 that's kind of marginal really.
But now The thickness of the card keeps it from being good in my Crossfire setup ( I own 2 of them and tried it for fit), and no Crossfire bridge means it needs PCIe 3.0 so I'm looking for something equivalent that won't have the BIOS issue. It actually kind of funny to be locked out of a BIOS that's locked in the first place. I can probably set everything up with the 6970s than use a card that blocks the BIOS anyway. But I couldn't recomend it to others. I just order 3 128GB SSDs today.($40 each). I can run 3 way RAID 0 and add 1 HDD for backup in RAID1. But if I go Crossfire I should probably break the 1080p barrier at the same time. Maybe an HD7970 with a 280X in Crossfire. Then I could find out what's up with VESA 103 by switching them.

I don't think XDMA Crossfire requires any specific PCI-E version.

I know because I've personally done XDMA Crossfire with 2x 290s on a Crosshair V Formula, which only supports PCI-E 2.0.

I don't know if it would have problems on PCI-E 1.0 or something, which you might have.
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