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How many watts can dissipate a 120mn radiator (experts needed) - Page 4

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

The efficiency of heat transfer from radiator to air does vary with thickness and other factors but at normal usable fan speeds it is only a small percentage difference between the thickest rads and the thinnest rads. Thick rads and dense rads are able to maintain their effectiveness at high airflow speeds better than thin, low density rads but at lower airflow speeds the differences are tiny, and start to favour thinner less restrictive rads at lower fan speeds.

There's the Bundymania rad test from last year where he compares many rads, but interestingly he has measurements for ST30, XT45, UT60 and Monsta. Those four rads are basically the same design and materials, only differing in depth. It shows indeed that best on thin unrestrictive rads is low speeds, and on thick rads best is found at high fan speeds.

Unfortunately it's difficult to draw any real conclusion because Bundy's heat source is just a single CPU with a mild overclock. Would be nicer if he had used something that produces higher more steady heat, like Martin's test setup does.
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post #32 of 36
Those are external tests too that automatically favour larger radiators because the entire giant body of the Monsta rad is surrounded by cool air and venting heat. In a real PC case rads are sitting in warmed air.

There are better tests that show no benefit to the Monsta over UT60 even externally. If anything they show how hard it is to get real results because the differences are so small that average equipment can't capture it accurately.

Its truly amazing how much attention "which rad is best" gets and yet the number of builds (even extreme cost ones) with awful airflow design. Fussing over 10% on the radiators and yet recycling warm air from one rad to another "because its only a few degrees"

Face ... meet palm.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 10/13/13 at 2:12pm
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post #33 of 36
Ah, yeah, completely passed me by that Bundy was testing on a test bench.

I feel I have to agree with your general point about "fussing over radiators", but I think it's kind of human nature to want to sort things into bad/okay/best. There's a lot of similar components out there, and you can't test them all, so you want a nice chart that explains it all, then you buy that part comfortable in the knowledge that you made the right choice.

So, in that context, would it be reasonable of me to ask why you have an ST30 and an XT45 in your rig, instead of just two ST30s? wink.gif
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post #34 of 36
I'm allowed to because I'm special?

Nah, not really. I do have spare St30 rads that I used before the xt45. I saw exactly 0C temp change with the xt45, or at least an aquaero could not tell the difference.

The reason it is there now is because it is less water flow resistant and the extra ports on it made it easy to add water sensors that can't be seen hanging off tubing runs. I have a bunch of solid acrylic and carbon black c47 adaptors on their way.
Edit, plus it just looks better in the 750d ... a totally adequate justification :-)

Its not the wanting the best part that is confusing. That is totally reasonable when spending lots of money on a hobby. Its just the lack of consistancy that is odd.

When I have some spare time I'm going to do some really basic testing with different rads / airflow / fan configs to try to highlight some of this stuff. I've done it before but never took the notes and screenshots or collected the data enough to share properly.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 10/13/13 at 4:05pm
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post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten1210 View Post

So it was louder meaning they had worse fans or they had good fans but running at higher speeds because other components weren't the best of the best.

We should compare singles vs singles instead of duals vs duals (Aluminium fins aren't for me)

I'm no fan of the ALC / AIO coolers, believe me, I'm surprised that one was ever sold. And yes, the aluminum fins bother me but so does the use of tin solder and the DIY Rads. Will they last 5 years ?.... I guess we'll know come 2016 or so.

Take those 2600 rpm fans away and the H100 gets trounced by the better air coolers. The Swiftech on the other hand does what it does at only 2,000 rpm..... still far too fast (and noisy) for my taste. Going from 2000 rpm to 2600 rpm is good for about 25% extra cooling so we can say that's the expected performance premium of DIY components. That would put a premium DIY 120mm system about 62.5% of the performance of an H100

As for the singe vs double performance comparison, that wasn't the intent..... but most air coolers will beat out any ALC 120 coolers .... it takes a 240 ALC unit to compete with PH-TC14-PE, Silver Arrow or DH14. But yes, when sizing rads for large engines at power plants and in building heating / cooling systems, radiator performance is quite linear with surface area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSK View Post

But isn't the UT60 full copper and the H100 is aluminium. Of course frontal area is very significant, but thermal conductivity and total surface area is not negligible.

Agreed..... As above....I'd expect a 25% difference in conductivity .... by no means a carefully controlled scientific analysis there, but I bet I'm in the ballpark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Thickness and materials do increase the efficiency with which heat is transferred but they will be mild differences ... and as has been shown in lots of tests, very dependant on airflow speed. ....
The efficiency of heat transfer from radiator to air does vary with thickness and other factors but at normal usable fan speeds it is only a small percentage difference between the thickest rads and the thinnest rads. Thick rads and dense rads are able to maintain their effectiveness at high airflow speeds better than thin, low density rads but at lower airflow speeds the differences are tiny, and start to favour thinner less restrictive rads at lower fan speeds.

Agreed .... I put together some numbers on post 546 in this thread ... along with a downloadable spreadsheet

http://www.overclock.net/t/1418637/phanteks-enthoo-primo-owners-club/540

But here's the long and short of it for360 Rads from Alphacool w/ one fan in push based upon Martnsliquidlab testing .... number in parenthesis are estimates in push pull. At 1800 rpm, almost doubling the thickness from 45 to 90 gets ya about 10% more cooling.

@ 1,000 rpm :
Aphacool XT45 - 149 watts @ 10C (180)
Aphacool UT60 - 151 watts @ 10C (183)
Aphacool Monsta - 154 watts @ 10C (186)

@ 1,250 rpm : Phanteks fan speed *
Aphacool XT45 - 183 watts @ 10C (222)
Aphacool UT60 - 188 watts @ 10C (227)
Aphacool Monsta - 197 watts @ 10C (230)

@ 1,400 rpm :
Aphacool XT45 - 204 watts @ 10C (247)
Aphacool UT60 - 210 watts @ 10C (254)
Aphacool Monsta - 223 watts @ 10C (270)

@ 1,800 rpm :
Aphacool XT45 - 257 watts @ 10C (311)
Aphacool UT60 - 269 watts @ 10C (325)
Aphacool Monsta - 281 watts @ 10C (340)

@ 2,200 rpm :
Aphacool XT45 - 307 watts @ 10C (371)
Aphacool UT60 - 326 watts @ 10C (394)
Aphacool Monsta - 365 watts @ 10C (461)
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 10/13/13 at 8:33pm
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post #36 of 36
Does anyone think those numbers could be higher if there was more air turbulence along the depth of the fins?
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