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Gaming and mouse response BIOS optimization guide for modern PC hardware

2M views 4K replies 348 participants last post by  BUFUMAN 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
BIOS

UEFI vs Legacy boot
Legacy with CSM enabled tends to give me a more traditional mouse movement feel, while the times I've tested UEFI with CSM off, it gave me a more floaty mouse cursor type movement. This setting will probably be very subjective to a lot of people depending on what mouse, mouse settings, and surface you use, but my experience so far is that legacy tends to be better with a more classic mouse movement.

1) BCLK: you want this to be 100.00, not 100 point random number. The closest you can get this to 100.00, the better. Many board makers have BCLK overclocking features built into their BIOS to try and cheat at benchmarks for hardware review sites. The Gigabyte z77 UD5H is one example of this. Leaving BCLK at AUTO, or manually setting it to 100.00 gets you an unwanted number like 100.1 on the UD5H. Manually setting it to 100.01 gets me 100.03. This is the closest to a flat 100 I can get on this board due to spread spectrum being a hidden setting. Disable spread spectrum to try and fix the last part if you can.

2) Memory Strap / Memory Multiplier: Since this is an overclocking website, many people love to crank this number as high as it can go. The only problem is, high bandwidth and the resulting high latency is not conducive to a positive game play experience. The ram I have installed can do 2133mhz @ 11-11-11-28, but 1600mhz @ 7-8-7-24 provides a much better feeling mouse response. Some people will claim the difference is impossible to feel, but I assure you that it is, at least once you have eliminated all other sources of high latency in your system. This is also due to 133 vs 100 memory ratios. 100:100 with 1600mhz should obviously provide better results since it matches BCLK. If you cannot tell the difference between changing settings like this in mouse response, you most likely have other latency bottlenecks.

3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You want to disable as many of these as possible because they bring a lot of lag. On the Asus Z77 board, using a Steelseries firmware updater for a mouse seems to fail on Win8 if you disable "C3 State Report" and "C6 State Report". I didn't have this issue on the Gigabyte board, so it seems to vary by motherboard.

4) PWM Phase Control - Set this to max phases. There's a noticeable difference between auto with power saving modes turned on and maximum phases on most motherboards.

5) Hyper Threading - If you disable HPET, you most likely do not want to run any virtual cores.

6) Vcore - Usually best to manually set Vcore since it seems to disable dynamic power features on some motherboards. Large difference between manual setting Vcore and auto on my Asus z77, but not as big on Gigabyte z77.

7) PEG Gen3 Slot Configuration: I get better results by manually setting this instead of leaving it on auto. Set it to Gen3 if you have an Ivy Bridge or higher CPU + a PCI-E 3.0 GPU, otherwise, use Gen2.

8) Execute Disable Bit I disable it just because the odds of any negative effects outweigh the security benefit. Traditionally a setting disabled by overclockers anyway.

9) Intel Virtualization Technology - disabled for any gaming PC obviously. Virtualization and it's services tend to be resource heavy and no reason to have it on for a gaming PC.

10) 1394 controller - disable in order to reduce DPC latency unless you actually use it for some reason, probably 99% of people don't.

11) xHCI pre-boot driver / xHCI mode / xHCI hand-off - Long story short, you want as few USB controllers active at once as possible, and I would say mice perform objectively worse on USB 3 controllers. Raising bandwidth on the same architecture tends to require more buffering and latency, so it's not hard to see why USB 3 would be worse for mice.

12) eHCI hand-off - No reason to have this turned on for Win7 or higher. Win7 should natively support USB 2.0, so disable it.

13) On-board audio - Disable. Enormous input lag.

14) On-board video - Disable unless you actually use it.

15) HPET (High Precision Event Timer) - disable to dramatically lower mouse lag and DPC latency

Explanation from software engineer for why TSC is superior and HPET should never be forced as the default clock except in a server environment:

http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9

16) Secondary ATA controllers (Marvell, etc) - disable to lower DPC latency

17) Secondary LAN - disable to lower DPC latency

18) Legacy USB support - usually have to leave this enabled in order to get back into the BIOS but sometimes will have better mouse response with it off. Varies highly by motherboard. Some boards will have out of control cursor movement with it off for some reason.

19) LLC and PLL Overvoltage - I've tested these a lot, and although people overclocking like to utilize them, I've found they do strange things to mouse movement. Generally anything involved with ramping up voltage response on the motherboard tends to make it feel like you have less a dead zone on the mouse where it's easier to overshoot with the cursor. I prefer to have both of these options off and seemed to dislike the effect of PLL overvoltage more than high LLC. You need to set PLL overvoltage to off instead of auto, because auto usually means turned on.

Asus Specific Section

- Ai overclock tuner
- Manual
- Asus Multicore Enhancement - Disabled
- Internal PLL Overvoltage - Disabled
- CPU bus sped : DRAM Speed Ratio - 100:100
- Memory Frequency - 1600 mhz
- EPU Power Saving Mode - Disabled
- Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology - Disabled
- Turbo Mode - Disabled
- CPU C1E - Disabled
- Package C State Support - Disabled

- C3 report - as mentioned earlier, having C3 and C6 off on the Asus Z77 board causes the Steelseries firmware updater tool to fail on Win8. I'm not sure if it causes any other problems. Try with them on and off and see if you notice any issues. Maybe Steelseries just don't know how to code a firmware updater. You can probably turn them off without any other issues.

- C6 report - see above

- Digi+ Power control

- CPU Load Line Calibration
- Regular
- CPU Voltage Frequency - Auto
- VRM Spread Spectrum - Disabled
- CPU Power Phase Control - Extreme
- CPU Power Duty Control - Extreme
- CPU Power Response Control - Regular
- Dram Voltage Frequency - Auto
- Dram Power Phase Control - Extreme

- CPU Voltage - Manual (you have to manually input a voltage, mine is 1.07 for stock Ivy Bridge, don't leave it on auto, it makes a big difference on this board. You don't have to change any of the other voltages though besides maybe RAM)
- CPU Spread Spectrum - Disabled
- BCLK Recovery - Disabled
- Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor - Disabled
- Hyper Threading - Disabled
- Execute Disable Bit - Disabled
- Intel Virtualization - Disabled
- S.M.A.R.T. Status Check - Disabled
- High Precision Timer - Disabled
- Intel Rapid Start - Disabled
- Intel Smart Connect - Disabled
- Initiate Graphic Adapter - PCIE
- iGPU Multi-Monitor - Disabled
- Render Standby - Disabled
- PCIEx16_1 Link Speed - manually set to Gen3. If you have older than an Ivy Bridge CPU or a PCIE 2.0 video card, then manually set it to Gen2.
- Intel USB 2.0 EHCI controller - Enabled
- Legacy USB Support - for most motherboards this is better off, this board is kind of a mystery. It doesn't detect USB sticks properly after turning it off and might cause issues with mouse functionality as well. Seems to be a no win situation either way.
- Legacy USB 3.0 support - Disabled
- Intel xHCI mode - Disabled
- EHCI Hand-off - Disabled
- HD Audio Controller - Disabled
- Bluetooth - Disabled
- Wi-fi controller - Disabled
- Marvell Storage - Disabled
- ASM1061 Storage Controller - Disabled
- Asmedia USB 3.0 controller - Disabled
- Overvoltage protection - Disabled (it's under the monitor tab at bottom)
- Wait for F1 if Error - Disabled

If you're using Win 8.1, here's the 22 step Windows 8.1 install guide with all services and settings included

http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware-2014-r0ach-edition/1020#post_23338511

How to run or re-run Windows experience index in Win 8.1

http://www.overclock.net/t/1530467/why-many-people-have-horrible-mouse-movement-and-dont-know-why-in-win-8-1

De-crapifying Win 10 v 0.1 post
http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/1870#post_24310929

Software

1) Intel Chipset Software - Don't need to install it if your chipset already has drivers covered in Win8.1

2) Intel Management Engine Interface - Don't install. Latency fest related to Vpro and other stuff most people don't use.

3) Lucid MVP - don't install, latency fest, useless

4) Java uninstall it and other malware with a resident memory footprint

5) Mouse software uninstall and use on-board memory settings because 99% of mouse software is coded poorly and turns native DPI steps into interpolated while it's intalled / active, totally defeating the purpose of a gaming mouse in the first place.

6) Intel Rapid Storage - I don't use RST because it has more latency than the default Microsoft one, although it probably performs better.

7) Intel Network Connections Ethernet Driver - Don't install if your driver is already included in Win 8.1. If using Win7, then during the install screen, you want to uncheck "Proset" and "advanced teaming and VLAN" section.

The 19.3 driver also has huge problems on Z77 and maybe other boards. I would use an earlier version such as 19.0 instead. Version 19.3 + 19.5 causes constant 6000 DPC spikes and is probably the worst driver I've ever seen:



9) Adobe Flash - much like Java, this program adds a large amount of system latency. Some people can't live without it though.

Windows Components

To get to these, you go to Control Panel > Programs and Features > "Turn Windows features on or Off"

Windows 7 Section

1) Windows Gadget Platform - The first two items in this list give you a noticeable change on desktop mouse response. I'm not sure which one does the most since I disable both at the same time.

2) Tablet PC Components - see above description

3) Uninstall Internet Exploder 8 - Updating IE in Win 7 gets you other Windows updates that you may or may not want like KB2670838.

Windows 8 Section

Uninstall the following until the menu looks like this:

  • Internet Exploder 11 - first turn smooth scrolling off in options menu of IE, then under the about section, turn off automatic updating for it
  • Print and document services
  • SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support
  • Windows Location Provider
  • Windows Powershell 2.0
  • Work folders client
  • XPS services
  • XPS viewer



Services

If your mouse doesn't feel snappy enough at this point, you should try disabling the following Windows services in this order:

1) Print Spooler - I always disable this because Microsoft seems to give a lot of priority to what the printer wants

2) Windows Defender - This one is hugely noticeable in Win8 and still pretty easy to notice in Win7. Go to the start menu, in the search box type "Windows Defender" and open it. Go to Tools/Options, then go to the last tab at the bottom and uncheck the box labeled "Use this Program". It turns off the service and sets the service to manual automatically.

3) Windows Search - can get rid of it

4) Defrag - type defrag in windows search box, turn off scheduled defrag

5) Windows Update - Set service to manual instead of automatic and it will not start unless you need it instead of running 24/7

6) Human Interface Device Access - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also has a large effect on mouse movement and makes one of the biggest differences on the list. Some people might prefer mouse movement with it on, but most will probably like it off. If you plug in a Kana v2 mouse with a PS/2 keyboard installed and this service set to manual, the service doesn't launch. It's mostly used for keyboards and some mice that have keyboard emulation for macros.

7) Superfetch - Win 7 usually disables this by default if you're running an SSD after you let your system idle, but Win 8 keeps it running for TRIM scheduling. I would disable it in both Win7 and Win8 and then turn off superfetch and prefetch in the registry afterwards.

8) Time Broker (Win8 only) - If you want to disable metro apps, you can't set the service to disabled using the service manager and have to do it with regedit:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker

Change the "Start" key to 4 instead of 3 to disable it

SSD Registry Settings

If your boot drive is an SSD, first you need to disable the superfetch service, then change the following registry settings:

Hkey_Local_Machine > System > Current Control Set > Control > Session Manager > Memory Management > Prefetch Parameters

And change the following two settings to "0" instead of "3":

1) EnablePrefetcher - unneeded for SSD
2) EnableSuperfetch - unneeded for SSD

Keyboard - A PS/2 keyboard with no USB devices plugged in except the mouse is the most optimal setup for mouse movement. I personally use brown switches with 40A-R o-rings. The travel distance is way too high without the o-rings. I don't like red switches that much because they're more prone to error and misclicks in both typing and gaming.

If forced to use USB, you don't want a keyboard with a 1000hz polling rate because USB controllers aren't good at handling multiple high polling rate devices at the same time, so get a 125hz one if using USB. You also don't want to have any other USB devices like gamepads or phones plugged in while you aren't using them either.

Some PS/2 and USB keyboards can cause issues though. The Steelseries 6gv2 I tested caused really bogged down cursor movement in both USB and PS/2 mode for some reason:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1531608/never-seen-a-keyboard-cause-swamp-cursor-till-the-steelseries-6gv2

Sound

1) Set your bitrate to 16bit 44.1k, anything higher causes a huge hit to mouse response.

2) Settings like CMSS, EAX, Crystallizer, etc, all need to be disabled

Nvidia issues that cause lag

Nvidia has something in device manager on Win8.1 called "Nvidia Virtual Audio" that's used when streaming to a mobile device. This is a lagfest that needs to be disabled. You probably want to disable the Nvidia HDMI audio in device manager as well under the sound section.





Nvidia specific software

*Somewhere between the "miracle driver" and 344.11 drivers, the Nvidia input lag issues seem to have been greatly fixed. *


This is what your Nvidia control panel should look like. Anti aliasing does add latency, so I force it off. Texture filtering is going to occur regardless, so it doesn't really matter what you set your anisotropic filtering to.



Your Desktop scaling section of the control panel should be set to "Display - No scaling" like the following picture. I noticed a very annoying software issue when testing if there was any lag difference in my 570 reference card and 970 GTX. Cursor movement seems to go to crap after you change the scaling setting from whatever it was when the driver was first installed. So basically, on a fresh install, you want to install the Nvidia driver, go in and change the scaling tab to "Display - No Scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch that setting again. Sometimes just rebooting will fix it though.



Leaving scaling on anything else incurs a large amount of input lag, even in native resolution. "GPU - No scaling" is also much laggier than the "Display - No Scaling" setting. This is bad because if you plug in a Korean IPS panel, or any panel in with no hardware scaler, it forces you to use the extremely laggy "GPU - No Scaling" mode.

The only solution to this, is to use a custom .inf file and revert to a much older driver (267.59), before the scaling module was rewritten, then you can pick the "no scaling" option in the following picture for a lag free experience. You have to make sure that you don't install Windows update KB2670838 or Internet Explorer 10 (installs that update with it), or you will get blue screen page faults with older Nvidia + ATI drivers.



Misc. Section

Chrome/Chromium
- tends to be overly GPU accelerated. Even after turning off hardware acceleration in settings, my GPU still goes to max 3d clocks while just browsing text pages on the internet. If you type "about:flags" in the browser, you can get to some GPU acceleration settings to disable, but my GPU won't go to idle clocks with Chromium unless I add "--disable-gpu" to the shortcut icon.

You will want to disable directwrite and accelerated 2d canvas in the about:flags menu to get rid of fuzzy text from crappy pixel aliasing.

Steam you will want to disable directwrite in the options menu of Steam because directwrite acceleration of text in browsers seems to bog down the cursor while they're open. Disable all the streaming options and other junk they're tossing in too.

Firefox disable hardware acceleration, automatic updates, crash reporter, etc, then go into the add-on section and disable automatic updates for the Cisco graphics plugin they've included for some unknown reason. I disable updates on it then turn it off myself.

DPC Latency

DPC Latency is mostly a measure of how ready, willing, and able a non-real time OS is to deal with requests from the user. It's not a measure of input lag, but will give you a good idea of possible problematic devices. You should get to around 28-32 if you can't disable HPET in the BIOS, or maybe as low as the screenshot from my system if you can:

 
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8
#2 ·
Although I agree with some of your points, I don't think anyone would notice some of the changes.
For example, I didn't do any of the things before step 11 for bios, And ignored every item under software(except for 2 Lucid MVP).

My DPC latency is 22 on a different motherboard than you have on Windows 8.1.
So unless someone actually has huge DPC latency problems you're not going to notice this because 1 us(millisecond) = 0.001 ms(microsecond) and I doubt anyone would notice a change smaller than 1/1000 of a second
wink.gif
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venrar View Post

Is 60-70 high? That's what I'm currently getting after following most of the steps in your guide. HPET didn't change the number in any meaningful way.
Around 30 is optimal for having HPET on, single digits is optimal with it off. If you have something like on-board audio enabled, it's probably going to be a lot higher.

Anything under 100-150 should probably not affect gaming fluidity. DPC's best use is identifying possible problematic system components, or identifying possible components that can be turned off that you don't use that may or may not be problematic in some way.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
No windows tweaks? Or bad antiviruses like kaspersky that eats a lot of cpu and constantly monitors the system. I noticed better responsiveness after changing from Avira to Avast.

I did fresh install one time and it was less responsive than tweaked w7. I had same exact drivers, antivirus and software.

Something like hid input service or core parking might have had noticeable impact. Or other things that might eat cpu cycles or poll system for key press.

Does java really have a noticeable impact on latency? Dunno how to play minecraft without it.

Why not 0 pre rendered frames? You don't feel any difference between 0 and 1?
I know it cant be really 0, as it does not work that real time, but it doesn't default to 3 in most games, as 3 are noticeable delayed.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

Does java really have a noticeable impact on latency?
100% positive yes on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

Why not 0 pre rendered frames? You dont feel any difference between 0 and 1?
I know it cant be really 0, as it does not work that real time, but it doesnt default to 3 in most games, as 3 are noticeable delayed.
The lower you go, the bigger trade off there is for GPU utilization. A setting of 2 will usually receive little to no hit, at 1 it starts to get a penalty. A setting of 1 will usually have less tearing than 2 though, so 1 is really the best compromise number for me for delay, tearing, GPU utilization, and prevention of an engine defaulting to 3.

A pre-render setting of 0 is kind of mysterious setting. I first experimented using 0 around the release of Half Life 2 engine. Some games like Day of Defeat wouldn't even start with a setting of 0. Other games would work fine. A few games would have crazy tearing. There's really nothing concrete to say about a setting of 0 because it's outcome is just all over the place.

I think games like DoD Source eventually did start working with a pre-render 0 setting, but it's probably something to do with Nvidia possibly adding frames into their render que, regardless to what you set pre-render to.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
So you dont know about any windows tweaks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

100% positive yes on that one.
Wow effect was quite noticeable even got few % of lg vs bots. My aim follows them a little better and I hear more hitsounds.

How can it have such effect on input latency?

Quote:
The lower you go, the bigger trade off there is for GPU utilization. A setting of 2 will usually receive little to no hit, at 1 it starts to get a penalty. A setting of 1 will usually have less tearing than 2 though, so 1 is really the best compromise number for me for delay, tearing, GPU utilization, and prevention of an engine defaulting to 3.

A pre-render setting of 0 is kind of mysterious setting. I first experimented using 0 around the release of Half Life 2 engine. Some games like Day of Defeat wouldn't even start with a setting of 0. Other games would work fine. A few games would have crazy tearing. There's really nothing concrete to say about a setting of 0 because it's outcome is just all over the place.

I think games like DoD Source eventually did start working with a pre-render 0 setting, but it's probably something to do with Nvidia possibly adding frames into their render que, regardless to what you set pre-render to.
I don't remember exactly when I started using 0 frames (in 2010 for sure), but on old slow amd card it worked with no problems, only noticed reduction of max fps, but that's useless, min fps remained the same. Now on nvidia card it works fine, don't notice any reduction of fps.

About 1.5 months ago started using 1 just to try it, didn't see any improvement in fps(with eye, but its over 60 in all games) or tearing, but it feels different than 0 and 3. I only notice tearing at 400+ fps, at 1000+ everything is a staircase
biggrin.gif


What do you mean by gpu utilization? Does it really matter how much gpu is being utilized if min fps is same or even lower a little but there's less input lag.

Maybe you can test 0 more, I'm not 100% sure as I have slow monitor. Don't know how you test, but I test like this: aim slow and fast 90/180 degrees back and forth, "aimbot" between targets and notice how disconnected it is from my hand movement. With claw/fingertip grip its easier to tell than with palm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

It's missing on the current drivers. There is no 0 pre-rendered frames setting. The smallest you can set is 1. I have version 331.40 currently.
They got removed for higher numbers in 3d programs where camera moves by itself and more stable frametime numbers in tests.

Found a thread with more nvidia lies and taking 0 frames literally https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523530/geforce-drivers/bring-back-pre-rendered-frames-0-/6/
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

Wow effect was quite noticeable even got few % of lg vs bots. My aim follows them a little better and I hear more hitsounds.
How can it have such effect on input latency?
Java, at least every time I've tested with it installed before, keeps a resident memory footprint that intercepts calls for it's use. It really is a malware program in every sense of the word.

This kind of program really shouldn't exist in this day and age. Functionality like that should be built into browsers and much less intrusive to where it doesn't actually increase system latency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserker1 View Post

So you dont know about any windows tweaks?
edit: updated main post with Windows services
 
#11 ·
wow didnt know that sandy bridge doesnt support hyper-threading why would intel do that. I do have an HT cpu tho and after disabling core parking i noticed that interrupt to process latency spikes dont occur while i'm playing dota2 or it is minimized to task pannel (dont know how to say that ) . When it was enabled i had 1.5ms spikes, now its 0.25ms
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
updated original post:

If you own an LCD with no built in scaler (like the Korean IPS ones) and use an Nvidia driver such as 267.59 to try and avoid the huge input lag from the newer drivers forcing you to use "GPU-No Scaling" instead of "Display-No Scaling" (yes, the lag is in native resolution without even scaling), do not install Internet Explorer 10 or optional windows update KB2670838 ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2670838 ). IE 10 installs that update automatically, and if you use older Nvidia or ATI drivers with that update, (mostly pre-Win8 era ones), you get blue screen page faults like the picture below:

 
#14 ·
Quote:
It infuriates me. They completely ignore their increasing driver input lag, then they release a proprietary, add-on solution similar to PHYSX to fragment the market that nobody thinks is a good idea except people that also through PHYSX was a good idea.

There's no real explanation for how it magically removes the giant amount of input lag their drivers have accumulated. They probably don't acknowledge they have any at all, then just claim they are removing scaler lag or something.

Fixing the vsync chop/stutter sounds doable with the hardware solution they're talking about, but I'd like to see LOTS more info on just how they are attempting to deal with input lag. Not fixing input lag for customers without a "g sync monitor" is also a huge slap in the face.
 
#15 ·
Its probably gonna increase input lag due to needing time for synchronization(but not like vsync) and lower monitor refresh rate when fps gets low, instead of throwing frames in as fast as gpu and monitor can display.
lol at fixing stuttering and heres SS3 dev AlenL about stuttering:
Quote:
The issue (or absence thereof) that you are noticing, Vicarious, is most likely what is deemed "microstuttering". This is something that is caused by overzealous optimizations on the GPU driver side, and the whole affair started somewhere around ten years ago, IIRC.

This problem was apparent for nearly a decade now. But it was only earlier this year that we realized the actual cause of this: What most people see, in many games is that it is not that the framerate is not good, but that the game engine doesn't get proper feedback from the driver about what that framerate actually is. So, eg. you can have perfect 60fps (with Vsync on!), but the game gets the feedback that frames are rendered at 100fps and 45fps alternatingly, or at 65 fps for like ten frames and then one of 30, or any weird combination like that (I'm mostly making up these numbers now we've seen all kinds - anything is possible).

In all those cases, the average FPS is 60, but individual frames are timed wrong. Since the game has to prepare animations/physics etc for each successive frame based on how long the last frame lasted, having this reported wrong is what causes the animation to look jerky, even though it is rendering smoothly. It's a kind of a catch-22 - the animation is prepared for jerky framerate, and if the framerate really _was_ jerky, the animation would actually look fairly well. But since the framerate is perfect, the animation looks jerky.

We've been nagging IHVs about this, but the solution is not so simple.

In any case, earlier this year, we've patched SS3 to include a workaround (actually more of a hack) that tries to detect and alleviate such behavior of the driver. It is not perfect, but it helps for a lot of people. Like you, I suppose.
from
http://steamcommunity.com/app/41070/discussions/0/846965882771158437/
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

It infuriates me. They completely ignore their increasing driver input lag, then they release a proprietary, add-on solution similar to PHYSX to fragment the market that nobody thinks is a good idea except people that also through PHYSX was a good idea.

There's no real explanation for how it magically removes the giant amount of input lag their drivers have accumulated. They probably don't acknowledge they have any at all, then just claim they are removing scaler lag or something.

Fixing the vsync chop/stutter sounds doable with the hardware solution they're talking about, but I'd like to see LOTS more info on just how they are attempting to deal with input lag. Not fixing input lag for customers without a "g sync monitor" is also a huge slap in the face.
Yeah, your optimized PC will have less input lag than their g-sync one for sure cause they are dealing only with one part of input lag that comes from fps.

Probably people start asking why they have to play with 30 fps after paying thousands of dollars for their "4k" rig
biggrin.gif


I assume theoretically they can make 144 fps on 144 hz panel perform better lag-wise then 300 fps or 500 fps on the same 144hz panel without vsync. They just need their g-sync chip to produce very small amount of its oun latency and i wonder if display port has the same latency as duallink dvi or not. At this point it can be very tempting as you wouldnt need more then 144 fps at all, that would be less power consumtion less heat and noise for games that used to pull more then 144fps.

I dont know what to buy now
smile.gif
as i wanted to buy 290x and a new monitor for competitive csgo but it seems to be hot as hell and i really dont like that. Cant do your driver manipulation aswell cause csgo needs kepler driver to run well and that the main game i play.
Hell, these features really shouldn't be proprietary
mad.gif
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

it's taken me a loooooooong time to track down the effects each one has on the actual user experience and not just benchmark scores
So you admit that you gauge effects of these tweaks "by feel"?
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

it's taken me a loooooooong time to track down the effects each one has on the actual user experience and not just benchmark scores
So you admit that you gauge effects of these tweaks "by feel"?
There's really no other method. You have to rely on people with brains that work better than yours. I can feel a faint difference with different driver versions, but I'm never quite sure if I'm imagining things or not. But sometimes there's a massive difference and I feel there's really no arguing when that happens.

For example, I'm currently sitting at a Linux desktop and the mouse feels a lot better. I'm pretty convinced there's a difference. Is that real? How would I prove this?

The best method I can think of, at first I would need a video camera that can do a lot more than normal 24fps or 60fps. I would have to set up a shot that shows both my hand moving and the screen. I can't do that. I don't have that hardware, I don't know if that kind of camera even exists for a normal price, and it would also be a good amount of work.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yes its nothing we can prove without special cameras and technical knowledge.

I first tried hpet long time ago, having no idea what it will improve and noticed huge response difference right when I booted to desktop. Same thing with C1E and Speedtep when I bought new supposedly faster but very delayed pc. Before I seen all this "placebo no technical explanation/high speed cam proven" fixes by r0ach.

Some things have have no or imperceivably effect and they do no input lag reduction. I cant force myself into a placebo effect or feel more responsive input with 125hz + raw input like someone said it does.

Majority of gamers play with very high and always different sensitivity(most cant even turn 180 degrees with one swift motion), play poor console ports without 1:1 movement, games with major input lag problems and find nothing strange about it, and think "that its how it supposed to be". Some may even take and believe in insulting "weighted weapon movement".

Same thing when source engine server has constant drops to 5-10fps (or stupid 30000 rate servers with constant choke for everyone), 95% of people just say they have "no lag must be ur pc/connection lol", even thought there is a thing that shows servers fps. Or not noticing extremely desynced melee animation in some source engine games.

Or lcd vs crt war: people denying and defending with "no lag for me", "human reaction is 200ms" bs to the bitter end.

And they also are clueless to much things, same thing was for me when I first started gaming years ago. I just didn't know what was happening and how things supposed to run and respond, but I didn't have good internet connection to write "placebo" on forums.
 
#23 ·
^ I agree with that, I tried most of the things in this guide and it made no difference when actually testing in game despite the lower readings. HPET off usually makes the mouse feel worse in fact. However I do agree with r0ach's findings on Nvidia drivers and use AMD instead because their drivers don't have input lag. It's possible that his guide is accurate for his specific motherboard and maybe some others, but for me the optimizations simply show lower latency in the DPC monitoring app and don't make a difference in real world performance.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

The other elephant in the room is the dynamic clock fetish Nvidia and AMD have now. [...]
Are you sure it's not the different driver versions? You can't use the older drivers as they don't support the new cards, so might have not seen the card with the same driver as on the GTX580.

I found this post about forcing it to run fixed speed: http://www.overclock.net/t/1267918/guide-nvidia-inspector-gtx670-680-disable-boost-fixed-clock-speed-undervolting
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by illwill View Post

HPET off usually makes the mouse feel worse in fact.
Maybe you are just used to the feeling of hpet and turned off it feels worse for you.
I doubt this timer can work completely different on different motherboards.

Mouse with it on is very slow and delayed, same thing was on old AMD motherboard. Turning 180 degrees back and forth is much slower with it on. On desktop it feels almost like Im using wireless bluetooth mouse.
 
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