Originally Posted by psyclum
you haven't been looking hard enough
most seasonic offerings are better then the CP-850. especially considering the CP-850 is a none industry standard PSU that you can only use in a GRAND TOTAL of 3 different cases
it was antec's attempt to be like dell by putting none industry standard crap in their product line and it backfired on them
yes there are some advantages of the DF chassis that were better then HAF (air filters mainly) but, that doesn't qualify them as "high end" cases
1. Seasonic better ? How do you mean ? I never saw jonnyguru give "better" than the CP-850s 10.0 performance rating.....they also don't run as quiet and they don't run as cool as the CP. If you can show me a 850 watts Seasonic or anybody's 10.0 performance rated PSU that's around $100, Im all ears ....er eyes
2. I have several Seasonics (just bought another X-1250 yesterday) but....they didn't cost me $0.10 a watt (closer to $0.20) for 10.0 performance rating and the Seasonics X series and Corsair's HX are no where near as quiet as the CP-850, nor as cool, at identical power draw.
2. Not to nitpick but it's 4 cases .... 1200, P183, 193 and DF-85
3. If no one took risks and introduced new products, to use your example, we'd all still be using Dells. The Antec cases remember were one of the pioneers of mounting of PSUs in the bottom and even in a separate chamber, rather than top of the case as was noted in the review below.
4. I didn't call the Antec cases "high end cases" (more of an "enthusiast on a budget" case) , I just put the HAF's lower than Antec's ... mainly because I consider filters a necessity (like a cooler on a CPU), and the ability to use a CP-850 PSU was a HUGE plus since getting a jonnnyguru 10.0 rated PSU for $85-90 (never paid more than $120) was a HUGE bonus to my own mind (as well as my users wallet's) as compared with the other $175 alternatives ....
5. The also have great customer service..... when USB 2 came out, I had and a bunch of Antec boxes out there and users calling up asking me to upgrade their 2.5 year old cases....I called Antec and they sent a box of USB 2 modules, no charge. Just recently had a user's case fan fail in a three year old build.....called and asked to buy a replacement....they sent two, no charge.
Everyone has their own opinion and even their own best components as everyone's needs are different, but Im in agreement with jonnyguru and SilentPC on this one
A serious consideration is that in each of the three compatible Antec cases, the CP-850 mounts on the bottom, and the intake for the PSU is quite separate from the rest of the system. In the P193 and P183, the PSU is in an entirely separate thermal chamber, and in the model 1200, a direct path can be maintained to the directly opposite, wide-open front vent. This means that our extreme hot box test conditions never apply to the CP-850; in other words, SPCR's test environment is unrealistically hot for the CP-850. Our atypical spot check with a room ambient thermal test showed the CP-850 would reach only 24 dBA@1m at 700W load in a 27°C working environment. This is ridiculously quiet for such high power output
The above is an obviously unfair advantage for the CP-850... but what of it? Antec has used an integrated systems approach for its CP-850 and its best cases, and if that approach is an advantage over all other case/PSU combinations, then, all the more power to Antec! It's not uncommon for enthusiasts to frequently replace the motherboard and components that mount onto it — such as CPU, RAM and video card — while the case and PSU are retained. There would be ample reason to take that approach with the CP-850 and one of the compatible Antec cases.
For the quiet-seeking computer gaming enthusiast, the CP-850 (along with any of the three [later four] compatible cases) is something of a godsend. Fantastically stable power, super low noise at any power load, long expected reliability due to excellent cooling, modular cabling, and all at a price that's no higher than many high end 6~700W models. That you're limited to one of three well-executed high cases from Antec — one mostly for silence (P183), one mostly for gaming (1200) and one that's really an ultimate everyman case (P193) — is not exactly a hardship either.
I have to be honest though... if I didn't have a Twelve Hundred I'm reviewing for next week, and had just load tested this unit without said case, I'd probably want to go buy one just to have a case to go with it. If the CPX form factor catches on, the CP-850 will be flat out untouchable. It is completely unmatched by any ATX unit on the market I can think of. You'd have to spend twice as much as this thing costs to find the next best thing, performance wise.
But again, having done a bunch of builds in both, .... wasn't personally a fan of the HAF, but that was oft the choice of the user whose build I was doing...... but from my experience, the HAF's just didn't "measure up". No filters ?..... are you kidding ? The HAF was a nice design "for it's day ..... but it's old design is simply outdated today. .... a fact that's true to only a a slightly lesser extent with the 1200. The most popular case I build with today is the Corsair 500R, which usually costs me between $80 and $90..... The HAF-X and the old Antecs just don't stand up .... an opinion shared by many reviewers. Again, I wouldn't call the 500R a "high end" case either. But it serves well enough as an enthusiasts case with a budget of < $2k.....and the newegg specials with the HX650-850 add to that value.
Coolermaster HAF-X - 8.95 rating
Corsair 500R - 9.25 rating
But getting back to the OP's original point..... yes Antec has slipped and fell behind. They don't have a single current PSU with a 10.0 jonnyguru performance rating and their new case designs, while functional are "nothing to write home about" as the saying goes. The only place they are currently serving as an industry innovator is in their improvements to standard Asetec closed loop cooler designs..... and I'm no fan of closed loop coolers.
In the meantime, new arrival Phanteks after climbing to the top of the CPU cooler market, has just thrown a grenade into the high end case market. It's hard for me to think of a $250 case with $100 worth of fans as a "high end" case cause it certainly doesn't have the expected price tag of a Cosmos II or 900D but feature wise I like it a lot better than those two. If I were Antec, I'd:
1. Refocus the PSU line....HCG, HCP, ....a total of 9 different lines ???? Drop to 3....a builders line for the budget sales to keep the doors open....a middle line for the moderate enthusiast and a high end, no compromise flagship.
2. Same thing with the case lines .... 7 lines ? Drop to 3 or 4 and concentrate on the flagship....that's what makes the other lines sell.
3. Stop introducing new products w/o market research ....a 200m Aluminum radiator .... what were they thinking ? Just cause Corsair (Asetek) did it, that doesn't mean it was a good idea.Edited by JackNaylorPE - 10/23/13 at 9:17am