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post #12881 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWhiteRX7 View Post

Each 1080 rad is basically 9x120mm rads put together lol and I have two of those. I have 18 x 120mm fans.

Are you running push/pull on both? I am currently waiting on washers to mount my 6 rads(14x 45mm thick rads in push/pull and 2x 30mm rads in push) in my 900D since the screws from Alphacool are too narrow. This build has been running into too many delays mad.gif

I would be curious to see how my quadfire loop compares to your trifire temps.
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post #12882 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreetcamaro View Post

You guys got it all wrong. Coming from the high performance automotive world I know this for a fact. It can be a real pain to get a cooling setup perform well on a high horsepower highly modified car. Many things go into it but slowing down the flow so that it stays in the radiator longer to cool off more is the worst thing you can do. While it stays in the radiator longer what does the water do that is in the engine or in this example the water blocks? It stays there longer and heats up higher before it leaves the water blocks. You want high flow so it can get in and out of everything quickly.


http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_rules_for_improving_engine_cooling_system_capability_in_high-performance_automobiles.htm

I'm sure that you are aware of this but there are many aspects of cooling something as hot as an engine which doesn't apply to pc cooling. The pressure capabilities is one of the major factors in automotive cooling which is the reason behind the pressure rated caps and the reason why an aluminum radiator can preform better than a copper radiator in cars. The extreme temps, and dissimilar metals aren't going to me an issue in most pc cooling setups too. A slow flow setup will never get water close to boiling so it can take in quite a bit of heat before going through the radiators while in a car it will boil and all hell will break lose. This is even more-so in a high HP setup. You can never have too much flow in an automobile setup. Just some FYI for those that care



Yes, I agree with you. people say that if water is moving too fast that it doesn't pick up enough heat. While there is only a limit on where a higher flow pump will not help if their radiator is setup to remove more heat than their components produce, they will be golden. The water picks up heat but there is more water working and it has less heat to disperse through the radiator so it balances out in the end. I don't know how pump heat may interfere with the setup though. A higher flow pump should generate more heat.

Lets change the water picking up heat from your components and moving the heat to your capable radiator to working moving boxes. A normal flow is 2 workers each carrying 2 boxes and take a 1 minute round trip to get the boxes to their destination and back. That's 4 boxes per minute between the 2 workers. A high flow pump is those same 2 workers carrying only 1 box each and taking 30 seconds for the trip. The same 4 boxes per minute.

I am definitely not an expert in either field but have a great understanding on how things work especially in automobiles. If someone have some info on a higher flow pump actually not preforming as good as a lower flow, I'd love to read up on it. Pump heat may be more of an issue than I thought which is never an issue in an automobile.
post #12883 of 43910
Esqueue, dissimilar metals is more of a corrosion concern than a heat transfer concern. It has to do with metals with different ecp's in an electrolytic solution which leads to galvanic corrosion. You can combat it by using the same metals, and/or sacrificial anodes.

I have never built a water cooled rig, but I have taken and taught my share of heat transfer, fluid flow, materials, and chemistry classes. And I work in a field where keeping things cool is pretty much a necessity.
Edited by the9quad - 1/2/14 at 7:33am
post #12884 of 43910
I am looking to pick up a water block. Are there any to stay away from? One that performs better than the rest? Complete personal preference?
post #12885 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Are you running push/pull on both? I am currently waiting on washers to mount my 6 rads(14x 45mm thick rads in push/pull and 2x 30mm rads in push) in my 900D since the screws from Alphacool are too narrow. This build has been running into too many delays mad.gif

I would be curious to see how my quadfire loop compares to your trifire temps.

Pull only. I'll see how that works at first and then go push pull if need be. LOL that will be a total of 36 fans biggrin.gif
    
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post #12886 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by esqueue View Post

I'm sure that you are aware of this but there are many aspects of cooling something as hot as an engine which doesn't apply to pc cooling. The pressure capabilities is one of the major factors in automotive cooling which is the reason behind the pressure rated caps and the reason why an aluminum radiator can preform better than a copper radiator in cars. The extreme temps, and dissimilar metals aren't going to me an issue in most pc cooling setups too. A slow flow setup will never get water close to boiling so it can take in quite a bit of heat before going through the radiators while in a car it will boil and all hell will break lose. This is even more-so in a high HP setup. You can never have too much flow in an automobile setup. Just some FYI for those that care



Yes, I agree with you. people say that if water is moving too fast that it doesn't pick up enough heat. While there is only a limit on where a higher flow pump will not help if their radiator is setup to remove more heat than their components produce, they will be golden. The water picks up heat but there is more water working and it has less heat to disperse through the radiator so it balances out in the end. I don't know how pump heat may interfere with the setup though. A higher flow pump should generate more heat.

Lets change the water picking up heat from your components and moving the heat to your capable radiator to working moving boxes. A normal flow is 2 workers each carrying 2 boxes and take a 1 minute round trip to get the boxes to their destination and back. That's 4 boxes per minute between the 2 workers. A high flow pump is those same 2 workers carrying only 1 box each and taking 30 seconds for the trip. The same 4 boxes per minute.

I am definitely not an expert in either field but have a great understanding on how things work especially in automobiles. If someone have some info on a higher flow pump actually not preforming as good as a lower flow, I'd love to read up on it. Pump heat may be more of an issue than I thought which is never an issue in an automobile.


I am sure there are some differences but the basics should still apply in the end. I played hell getting my 600hp camaro to stay cool in 90+ degree day time temps. I finally got it dialed in but man it beat me up pretty bad getting there. A 600hp pump gas N/A small block produces a ton of heat to dissipate. 4.56 gears making the engine sing at 3000+ rpm at only 50mph doesn't help either. I got new 3.90's sitting here I need to get put in this spring.
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post #12887 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Esqueue, dissimilar metals is more of a corrosion concern than a heat transfer concern. It has to do with metals with different ecp's in an electrolytic solution which leads to galvanic corrosion. You can combat it by using the same metals, and/or sacrificial anodes.

I have never built a water cooled rig, but I have taken and taught my share of heat transfer, fluid flow, materials, and chemistry classes. And I work in a field where keeping things cool is pretty much a necessity.

Yeah, I was listing issues you will deal with in almost all automobiles but shouldn't deal with in computers.I was going in one direction but lost track of what I was typing about. That is one of the reasons why automobiles need their coolant where our PC's with any half decent can do fine with distilled water and something to function as a biocide. I'm sure that I've seen a few cooler master systems that mix copper blocks with aluminum radiators which is a reason why I kind of think of that company as a joke.
post #12888 of 43910
post #12889 of 43910
silver and copper in computer cooling bad
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post #12890 of 43910
Quote:
Originally Posted by esqueue View Post

A slow flow setup will never get water close to boiling so it can take in quite a bit of heat before going through the radiators while in a car it will boil and all hell will break lose.

Nevertheless, the temperature deltas between the block and water, water and radiator, and radiator and air also play a crucial role in heat transfer where larger temperature deltas between the two mediums increased the rate of heat transfer from the hotter medium to the cooler medium via conductive heat transfer.

Fourier's equation of conductive heat transfer is q = k A ΔT / s.
q= heat transfer
k= thermal conductivity
A= surface area
ΔT= temperature difference
s = material thickness

Since k, A,and s are static in a closed loop then one can infer that ΔT has the largest impact on heat transfer. Considering that any given molecule of water will spend the same amount of time within a specific cross-section of a loop over time, I am unsure how relevant flow rate would be in a closed loop if the flow is turbulent throughout and a water wetter is used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esqueue View Post

I'm sure that I've seen a few cooler master systems that mix copper blocks with aluminum radiators which is a reason why I kind of think of that company as a joke.

You mean like every other all-in-one system?



Edited by Slomo4shO - 1/2/14 at 8:51am
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