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post #42041 of 43981
Man, that was brutal. Good one. rolleyes.gif
post #42042 of 43981
Eh, prefer not to rage about it. We are all here for the same reasons, for help and to help others. Let's do that big bro
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post #42043 of 43981
I can agree to disagree. lol

It's all good
post #42044 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodybdesigns View Post

I think you should take a look around on Aliexpress or TaoBao before you fully judge Barrow. There is now like 5 different brands making the same fittings. Look and all.

Unfortunately it isn't going to stop, they are making a name for themselves no matter if we like it or not. TONS of people are using Barrow..including myself. And I will continue to use them as long as they are selling $1 fittings for $3.50 and not trying to charge me $11 a fitting. The costs to make one of these tiny fittings is probably $1. And that is pushing it.

Why do I have to pay $11 a fitting? A name? So you are saying when I go to the grocery store and I buy Food Club Green Beans and not Del Monte Green Beans, I am doing something wrong? Green Beans is green beans, and so is my fittings.

Yep and if everyone hopped on the barrow train innovation would stop and we would be stuck with the same tired clones and nothing new. You also grossly misrepresent the reasoning in this case, Barrow steals there designs they do not pay for R&D, they do not Innovate they copy. They are most likely a subsidiary of a very large company that clones many products, they have there own factories and they use cheap ways out like not changing there tools when they should which equals lesser quality.

This is why the price is lower, I always love to hear the "There ripping us off" excuse, well as a small business owner myself I can tell you you could not be more wrong.
The reason BP is more expensive is,

A. Quality takes Money.
B. Innovation takes Money.
C. BP is a Small Company, they do not own there own factories and even if they do its no where near as vast as a Chinese Cloners.

As to the price difference your numbers are skewed, all the Barrows I seen are more like 5-6 on Aliex, and the same fittings are 8 on MMM where as the Bits version is 10. Also I addressed this in my post, if you want to use Barrow stuff that is your business, and I do not care and will not judge you, however if you want this industry to tell you its okay give your money to the thieves well you are mistaken.

The user of Barrow trying to save a few bucks doesn't bother me, however a water cooling shop that is supposed to be bettering our industry supporting toxic thieves that are playing into destroying it, well thats another matter. I love this hobby and this industry and I want to see it succeed and if that means I need to spend a few more dollars so be it. If you do not see how supporting thieves like Barrow hurts our industry well then I do not know what to tell you, as its pretty much common sense.

Also this is all really irrelevant you and I do not produce water cooling parts, the makers that do, do not support barrow for good reason. They have every right to deny anyone to carry there products and they do they are actually pretty strict about who they let into the circle to protect this community.

And your right it will continue, but thats okay because 80% of this community has morals and understand the repercussions of dealing with such companies. If they succeed and take over a large market share then then our company's will leave, then we can go back to making custom blocks as the cloners will have nothing to copy.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/26/16 at 8:32pm
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post #42045 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Yep and if everyone hopped on the barrow train innovation would stop and we would be stuck with the same tired clones and nothing new. You also grossly misrepresent the reasoning in this case, Barrow steals there designs they do not pay for R&D, they do not Innovate they copy. They are most likely a subsidiary of a very large company that clones many products, they have there own factories and they use cheap ways out like not changing there tools when they should which equals lesser quality.

This is why the price is lower, I always love to hear the "There ripping us off" excuse, well as a small business owner myself I can tell you you could not be more wrong.
The reason BP is more expensive is,

A. Quality takes Money.
B. Innovation takes Money.
C. BP is a Small Company, they do not own there own factories and even if they do its no where near as vast as a Chinese Cloners.

As to the price difference your numbers are skewed, all the Barrows I seen are more like 5-6 on Aliex, and the same fittings are 8 on MMM where as the Bits version is 10. Also I addressed this in my post, if you want to use Barrow stuff that is your business, and I do not care and will not judge you, however if you want this industry to tell you its okay give your money to the thieves well you are mistaken.

The user of Barrow trying to save a few bucks doesn't bother me, however a water cooling shop that is supposed to be bettering our industry supporting toxic thieves that are playing into destroying it, well thats another matter. I love this hobby and this industry and I want to see it succeed and if that means I need to spend a few more dollars so be it. If you do not see how supporting thieves like Barrow hurts our industry well then I do not know what to tell you, as its pretty much common sense.

Also this is all really irrelevant you and I do not produce water cooling parts, the makers that do, do not support barrow for good reason. They have every right to deny anyone to carry there products and they do they are actually pretty strict about who they let into the circle to protect this community.

And your right it will continue, but thats okay because 80% of this community has morals and understand the repercussions of dealing with such companies. If they succeed and take over a large market share then then our company's will leave, then we can go back to making custom blocks as the cloners will have nothing to copy.
for that matter there are low cost options that don't break the bank and also function well...xspc is a big one smile.gif
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post #42046 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Yep and if everyone hopped on the barrow train innovation would stop and we would be stuck with the same tired clones and nothing new. You also grossly misrepresent the reasoning in this case, Barrow steals there designs they do not pay for R&D, they do not Innovate they copy. They are most likely a subsidiary of a very large company that clones many products, they have there own factories and they use cheap ways out like not changing there tools when they should which equals lesser quality.

This is why the price is lower, I always love to hear the "There ripping us off" excuse, well as a small business owner myself I can tell you you could not be more wrong.
The reason BP is more expensive is,

A. Quality takes Money.
B. Innovation takes Money.
C. BP is a Small Company, they do not own there own factories and even if they do its no where near as vast as a Chinese Cloners.

As to the price difference your numbers are skewed, all the Barrows I seen are more like 5-6 on Aliex, and the same fittings are 8 on MMM where as the Bits version is 10. Also I addressed this in my post, if you want to use Barrow stuff that is your business, and I do not care and will not judge you, however if you want this industry to tell you its okay give your money to the thieves well you are mistaken.

The user of Barrow trying to save a few bucks doesn't bother me, however a water cooling shop that is supposed to be bettering our industry supporting toxic thieves that are playing into destroying it, well thats another matter. I love this hobby and this industry and I want to see it succeed and if that means I need to spend a few more dollars so be it. If you do not see how supporting thieves like Barrow hurts our industry well then I do not know what to tell you, as its pretty much common sense.

Also this is all really irrelevant you and I do not produce water cooling parts, the makers that do, do not support barrow for good reason. They have every right to deny anyone to carry there products and they do they are actually pretty strict about who they let into the circle to protect this community.

And your right it will continue, but thats okay because 80% of this community has morals and understand the repercussions of dealing with such companies. If they succeed and take over a large market share then then our company's will leave, then we can go back to making custom blocks as the cloners will have nothing to copy.

Well played sir thumb.gif

I agree with this. There are hobbyists (me) and enthusiasts (mostly you guys) when it comes to water cooling. It's a really neat thing to do, its unique, and quite frankly, its beautiful to look at. I have never heard so many Oooh's and Ahhh's about anything. I understand where the long time enthusiasts would stand by a long term product. But man I am just a hobbyist. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I would LOVE to spend a ton of money, but the budget is tight, and I would rather spend my money on my little girl.

Now if we were getting a nice server to host some websites, you wanted to know what the best database to host your site would be, then I could see me being on the enthusiast side of the argument about that. But this is the other side of the fence and I am new(ish) to water cooling.
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post #42047 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfknjadagr8 View Post

for that matter there are low cost options that don't break the bank and also function well...xspc is a big one smile.gif

Agreed smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodybdesigns View Post

Well played sir thumb.gif

I agree with this. There are hobbyists (me) and enthusiasts (mostly you guys) when it comes to water cooling. It's a really neat thing to do, its unique, and quite frankly, its beautiful to look at. I have never heard so many Oooh's and Ahhh's about anything. I understand where the long time enthusiasts would stand by a long term product. But man I am just a hobbyist. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I would LOVE to spend a ton of money, but the budget is tight, and I would rather spend my money on my little girl.

Now if we were getting a nice server to host some websites, you wanted to know what the best database to host your site would be, then I could see me being on the enthusiast side of the argument about that. But this is the other side of the fence and I am new(ish) to water cooling.

I agree thats why I said in the beginning, I dont judge users of the products that are new into the hobby or dont want the logos. Honestly I wasnt overly upset at barrow for making the fittings at first, as BP does like to put lots of logos and are very expensive.

However lets fast forward, now they are cloning other company's ones such as Frozen Q, which is a very small company that is barely getting by, not only did they clone there product they took there name and label it as such in a misleading way. That is just wrong, the fittings I mean there is only so many ways to make a fitting and it can be sort of written off, but they have gone too far as of late.

To take a design and innovate on it is something else entirely, TT for instance kinda copy designs but they change them and innovate on them, straight up stealing and changing nothing just isn't right. Like you say in your title you are database designer, so put yourself in those shoes , if you spent a ton of time designing and perfecting a database and someone just blatantly ripped off your code and sold it as there own for cheaper.
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post #42048 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Agreed smile.gif
I agree thats why I said in the beginning, I dont judge users of the products that are new into the hobby or dont want the logos. Honestly I wasnt overly upset at barrow for making the fittings at first, as BP does like to put lots of logos and are very expensive.

However lets fast forward, now they are cloning other company's ones such as Frozen Q, which is a very small company that is barely getting by, not only did they clone there product they took there name and label it as such in a misleading way. That is just wrong, the fittings I mean there is only so many ways to make a fitting and it can be sort of written off, but they have gone too far as of late.

To take a design and innovate on it is something else entirely, TT for instance kinda copy designs but they change them and innovate on them, straight up stealing and changing nothing just isn't right. Like you say in your title you are database designer, so put yourself in those shoes , if you spent a ton of time designing and perfecting a database and someone just blatantly ripped off your code and sold it as there own for cheaper.

Yeah, I have seen those T Virus rezzies they came out with. I have also seen the arguments about it. I do agree that is wrong. There are so many awesome ways you could design a rezzie. Makes you wonder if Barrow happened to get their hands on a mold because I would imagine that rezzie would take some serious work to put together.

But on another note, I have created many databases for a company for 3 years (no longer employed there btw) that I know for a fact are being used (and abused) to this day. That was the choice I made when I signed up for the job. It is what it is, just recreate something new and fresh that will blow people away and move on...
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post #42049 of 43981
offtopic.gif _ offtopic.gif

Is this still the [Official] AMD R9 290X / 290 Owners Club? Or has it change into the I like, or don't like, Barrow fittings Club?

Just for grins: I have Bitspower Black Sparkle fittings and Koolance QDCs... biggrin.gif
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post #42050 of 43981
Quote:
Originally Posted by JourneymanMike View Post

offtopic.gif _ offtopic.gif

Is this still the [Official] AMD R9 290X / 290 Owners Club? Or has it change into the I like, or don't like, Barrow fittings Club?

Just for grins: I have Bitspower Black Sparkle fittings and Koolance QDCs... biggrin.gif

Actually we were talking about MMM, more so. Then barrow as a company not there fittings, but ya, however only as it related to MMM. tongue.gif.

Then seeing how MMM sells 290 blocks, which is how all this started, its pretty on topic, though it did veer a bit.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/27/16 at 8:14am
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