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[AMDFX] AMD Steamroller IPC Leaked! Cosmology Benchmark! - Page 30

post #291 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Power consumption on the desktop is a goddamned joke anyway, there's no point in even bringing it up. This is a website where people have GTX Titans and triple-monitors and OC their CPU's to the moon. I don't even know why people pull out the power consumption card as if it means anything. Phenom II was and is good, but there's no point in acting like it's better than it really is. For people who run heavily-threaded workloads, PD is a definite upgrade if they went to an octocore.

OC'ing really isn't that bad on wattage. Running a load ton of equipment is. Per cores Intel is far more notorious on wattage, whole processor wattage Intel will beat an AMD.
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post #292 of 745
It's a poor generalization to state that as an arch, PD is a hefty upgrade. Only an octocore Vishera, at relatively high clocks, definitively beats a X6 Thuban; to do this requires vastly more power consumption, additional instruction sets, an appreciable increase in IPS, two additional logic cores, more cache, and a more robust IMC. After all, BD was roughly regarded as a flop since it was more or less exactly on par with a Thuban. PD is generally recognized to be 10-15% faster than BD, so logic dictates that PD is therefore 10-15% better than Thuban at each respective arch's pinnacle. Sounds awfully like the disparity between SB and IB, and I highly doubt a 2600k owner is staying awake at night contemplating "upgrading" to a 3770k. Don't get me wrong, if someone gave me a good 8320/8350, I wouldn't refuse it. But on the flip side of the coin, I have never at any point felt inclined to go out and buy one, either. Power consumption shouldn't be a joke; it *IS* a performance metric, albeit not exactly an exciting one for most on this site.
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post #293 of 745
Power consumption is pretty useless and only means anything if you're sitting there running the rig at full load literally 24/7 for days and months on end.
Quote:
to do this requires vastly more power consumption, additional instruction sets, an appreciable increase in IPS, two additional logic cores, and a more robust IMC.

Besides power consumption, you're basically just listing improvements in the uarch that yield performance improvements, which is kinda the whole point of refining a uarch.

AMD is aware of how power consumption doesn't mean much, which is why they released 220W TDP CPU's not long ago, and why they continue to release GPU's with TDP's of 275+. I don't see why people bring up power consumption when they have a 5,000W central air unit running all day, or a 2,500W fridge. It's just silly.

The boost from PD over BD was a lot bigger than that of IB over SB. 10~15% =/= 5%+.
post #294 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Power consumption is pretty useless and only means anything if you're sitting there running the rig at full load literally 24/7 for days and months on end.
Besides power consumption, you're basically just listing improvements in the uarch that yield performance improvements, which is kinda the whole point of refining a uarch.

AMD is aware of how power consumption doesn't mean much, which is why they released 220W TDP CPU's not long ago, and why they continue to release GPU's with TDP's of 275+. I don't see why people bring up power consumption when they have a 5,000W central air unit running all day, or a 2,500W fridge. It's just silly.

The boost from PD over BD was a lot bigger than that of IB over SB. 10~15% =/= 5%+.

To play the devils advocate once you reach that much performance in a processor squeezing more out of the same design is incredibly minimal. Honestly most of their cores are just re-brands or die shrinks. People need to think of a processor like an engine you can replace all parts in, any core with any core, memory with memory. Once you understand that cores are simply just cores you can get beyond the idea that they are anything more. What has improved Intel's performance of the later models by that 5% is the ever improving fabrication. 4770k is a different core design btw. What has improved AMD's performance isn't in fabrication but it's incremental progress of architectural design. Once AMD meets it's desired HSA build improving it's fabricating will give it significant boost. My expectation of Intel in progress is disappointment. I assume with a company like Intel, they'd prefer releasing the same chip over and over making cash while the world stagnates in technology, maybe they are waiting for AMD to catchup so they can once again play hardball. I don't know. Either way a company shouldn't stagnate progress even if they fear lower performance from their newer generation. You can't fear that or the world won't see better technology. Not cheering for anyone, to me it's like watching a really long game of Civ 5.
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post #295 of 745
I think the reason why performance has only been going up in small increments for Intel's processors is because their uarchs have already began hitting the performance wall. I mean, those processors are already insanely powerful, and most people don't realize that. They just blindly say "moar! moar!" like it's that easy to squeeze performance out. I see people all the time say the reason Intel hasn't bothered with doing big performance increases is because they have "no competition". The truth is that they have been focusing on lowering power consumption for mobile devices since their chips can scale down to such a level. They know they have come close to hitting their wall, just like how AMD hit their wall with K8 and couldn't squeeze more out of it, resulting in Llano being a little disappointing on the CPU side and them rushing out Bulldozer ver1 in 2011.

AMD has their fresh uarch and they can make tons of improvements to get performance increases. I'm positive that AMD will stick with the modular design even past Excavator. By either Excavator or whatever comes afterwards, I wouldn't be shocked if AMD surpasses them in performance, and this time it wouldn't be merely because of a "fluke" like the A64 days. Of course Intel could strike back with their massive R&D budget and the fact they have their own fabs, but I don't think there would be such a huge discrepancy like there is now.
post #296 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

sorta... an 1100T thuban and piledriver are close clock for clock with the 1100t usually 5%-15% faster depending. ... Frankly piledriver is a little faster then deneb clock for clock

You do know that Deneb and Thuban are the same speed clock for clock right? Well except in the memory controller, Thuban was slower than Deneb by about 1% in that area but clocked a bit higher on average there so it easily made up the difference. The differences between Deneb and Thuban cores are pretty much just the addition of turbo core. But to say that a Thuban core is faster than a Deneb would be like saying a Deneb is faster than a Callisto core, they are both the same... When you say Piledriver is a bit faster than Deneb and ~10% slower than Thuban you are saying completely opposite things.

Thuban's IPC is ever-so-slightly noticeably better, though no more than 5%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

All these pro-Thuban comments are making me want to keep my 1055T @ 3.8GHz. I've got a 8320 coming from another OCner in ~4 weeks, I guess I'll have to see how it performs.

Anyone who says that Thuban = Vishera is delusional. Going from a 4GHz 1055T to a 4.5GHz 8320 was a very noticeable upgrade.
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post #297 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

I think the reason why performance has only been going up in small increments for Intel's processors is because their uarchs have already began hitting the performance wall. I mean, those processors are already insanely powerful, and most people don't realize that. They just blindly say "moar! moar!" like it's that easy to squeeze performance out. I see people all the time say the reason Intel hasn't bothered with doing big performance increases is because they have "no competition". The truth is that they have been focusing on lowering power consumption for mobile devices since their chips can scale down to such a level. They know they have come close to hitting their wall, just like how AMD hit their wall with K8 and couldn't squeeze more out of it, resulting in Llano being a little disappointing on the CPU side and them rushing out Bulldozer ver1 in 2011.

AMD has their fresh uarch and they can make tons of improvements to get performance increases. I'm positive that AMD will stick with the modular design even past Excavator. By either Excavator or whatever comes afterwards, I wouldn't be shocked if AMD surpasses them in performance, and this time it wouldn't be merely because of a "fluke" like the A64 days. Of course Intel could strike back with their massive R&D budget and the fact they have their own fabs, but I don't think there would be such a huge discrepancy like there is now.

Agreed but ARM is a much larger company that has been running with a arch that has nearly unlimited methods of advancements possible to it. Hearing Intel say that they'll be going ARM could mean a dead end for them. AMD wants turn the x86 platform into something resembling ARM chips through it's HSA and highly programmable GCN cores.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 10/30/13 at 7:59pm
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post #298 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

PD does not use less power than Thuban. Soooo tired of hearing otherwise, the benches are out there. Anyway, fact remains that for a just above average Phenom, PD is a sidegrade, end of story. This isn't a backhanded compliment to Vishera. Let's try to steer this ship back on topic.
I remember I saw a review where both phenom x4 965 and the FX 6300 were tested.
The FX 6300 seemed to use as much power as the phenom 965 did only it had better performance especially in games and multithread. Also the 6300 has a lower TDP so it's easier to cool and overclock than the phenom 965.
Edited by Serios - 10/31/13 at 1:46am
post #299 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

Don't get me wrong, if someone gave me a good 8320/8350, I wouldn't refuse it. But on the flip side of the coin, I have never at any point felt inclined to go out and buy one, either. Power consumption shouldn't be a joke; it *IS* a performance metric, albeit not exactly an exciting one for most on this site.

You obviously are happy with your CPU and not in need of an upgrade, nothing wrong with it. But make no mistake, going from stock thuban hexacore to stock PD octocore is no 2600k-3700k jump, it is a far bigger jump in perf.
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post #300 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

Yes and I wonder what the power consumption would be like. A little birdie told me the EU might just cap CPUs at 90W in the not too distant future.
This is sickening if true, they've already virtually destroyed my other hobby, cars, now they are going for computers. mad.gif
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