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C32 vs. G34 vs. X58 Options

4K views 41 replies 7 participants last post by  btupsx 
#1 ·
I'm looking into replacing my rig with one that is more conducive to folding efficiently. I need the possible new rig to fit within an ATX footprint due to space constraints that I cannot otherwise work around, i.e. getting an E-ATX case is not in the cards. Otherwise I would be going for a 4P setup. So far I have three general candidate builds, ranked in order of how I anticipate they will perform/cost. Give me your input:

1. ASUS KCMA-D8 with 2 4174 HE
I am leaning towards this build most because it offers the highest clocks and most efficiency for the money. It also has a good feature set with more than one PCI-E x16 slot. However I have read several less than impressive reviews of the KCMA-D8 via multiple sites, and not familiar with the potential long term future of socket C32.

2. Gigabyte or Asus X58 Mobo with L5639
This comes a very close second to the above build due to the value L5639 offers. I place it second because X58 boards seem to have a finicky reputation, and the socket/platform is dead. I also refuse to pay what X58 boards seem to be going for nowadays on most sites, when 6 months ago they cost half as much or less.

3. SUPERMICRO MBD-H8SGL-F-O with either 6164 or 6128 HE
Simple build, though very doubtful it would offer much improvement over my current rig. Only one PCI x16 slot, and single socket is somewhat of a letdown. G34 will be around for awhile though. Am I correct in assuming that 6164 is preferable over the 6128 HE?
 
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#2 ·
Get the board from the first option, then get some CPUs with alot of cores for it. Folding@home SMP folding scales much better with available threads than it does clocks. Architecture helps too, which means if at all possible, get another of those LGA 1366 Xeons and get a 2P LGA 1366 board for them, as that would ultimately give you 24 threads and a whole hell of alot more PPD than 2 hex-core Opterons.

Basically, go with the option that gives you the most threads.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

How well do C32 Opterons over clock/under volt? Is it the same tedious situation as with G34?
Note: I haven't really kept up with the 4p opteron setups in a while. I sold my 4p almost a year ago.

No bioses were ever developed for the C32 socket as far as I know. There may not even be any bioses currently available for 2p G34 boards either. Definitely none for 1p boards.

With the G34 opterons, you can multiply the cores by the clock speed to get a rough representation of which cpus are faster. (This really only applies to folding as it scales well)

Honestly if you're looking to use this as a gaming rig and folding rig, you might better off just getting a standard cpu. A 3930k will probably put out as much ppd as those setups and still allow you to game effectively.
Opterons are best used in bulk. If you can't put out the performance to complete a bigadv in time on a 2p/4p, you're wasting your time.

Another thing to keep in mind:
I built my 4p for ~$1400 with 4 6128 cpus. Overclocked to 2.5ghz from 2.0 stock. You can get these cpus for almost nothing on ebay at this time.
Footprint will be a lot larger than what you're looking for, but it'll be quite powerful and upgradeable.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

Give me your input
An L5639 should be almost a guaranteed 3.2GHz+ in any decent LGA-1366 board, which would probably put it above any of the other options in value.

If you were to go with an X58 board, what would you be looking to spend on one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

How well do C32 Opterons over clock/under volt? Is it the same tedious situation as with G34?
In general, they don't. Well, very few boards support any real tweaking of these parts.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the input guys. I believe I would like to cap X58 mobo expenditure to ~$100; it really bothers me that X58 boards are going for $150+ on most sites, when 6 months ago they were half as much. L5639 is responsible for the inflated market demand though. X58 would represent the most long term value, but then again the boards aren't under warranty, and I'd have to get triple channel RAM, when I have 2400 MHz dual channel lying around. I know that C32/G34 boards aren't very tweakable, yet how are people achieving the modest overclocks they report? With a strap? FWIW I don't really game very much anymore, and when I do it's usually older titles, so gaming strength isn't a major factor.
 
#8 ·
Alright so I've done some research.

Basic info:
Magny-Cours: Opteron 6100 aka MC
Bulldozer-based Interlagos: Opteron 6200 aka IL
Piledriver-based Abu Dhabi: Opteron 6300 aka AD

6100 series G34 can be overclocked using the bios Tear has developed at [H]. This is only works with the Supermicro H8QGi, H8QG6 or H8QGL boards. This is the method I used when I had my 4p.
Guide: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1677395

IL and AD G34 and C32 production cpus are limited to overclocks based on power states. Basically they can be turned up to the highest boost clock as their highest 'overclock.' This is achieved using TurionPowerControl, also known as TPC.
Guide: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1708870

IL and AD G34 and C32(?) are completely unlocked using TPC.
Guide: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039116320&postcount=7

How to install TPC: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1669698
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

I believe I would like to cap X58 mobo expenditure to ~$100
Get a used board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

I'd have to get triple channel RAM, when I have 2400 MHz dual channel lying around.
Dual channel is rarely an appreciable hindrance for LGA-1366 (indeed the latency is lower and the memory can normally be clocked much higher relative to the uncore clock in dual channel), and even if you do want triple channel, you hardly need a triple channel kit.
 
#11 ·
What ppd's you will have and cost of builds, watts per day?
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSSETS View Post

What ppd's you will have and cost of builds, watts per day?
I'd be shocked if any of these machines exceeded 50k ppd.
An overclocked ES 32core 2p G34 build would probably score the highest though, and would probably beat a heavily overclocked 3930k. It might even be able to complete a bigadv unit.

The real points come when you get into bigadv territory. As it is you need a pretty hefty machine to complete them. There are no single socket machines currently that can. Only a fast Sr2 or better can anymore.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Get a used board.
Dual channel is rarely an appreciable hindrance for LGA-1366 (indeed the latency is lower and the memory can normally be clocked much higher relative to the uncore clock in dual channel), and even if you do want triple channel, you hardly need a triple channel kit.
That's the problem, used boards are usually going for a minimum $150. A truly new one would be well over $200. Neither was the case a few months ago. I know I don't *need* triple channel with 1366, but if it's available, I'd like to equip it. As far as PPD, I'm not expecting much over 40k on the CPU side, which is still ~4x what my X6 is pulling now. I have a number of GPU's I would be using, so total system build I would be aiming for ~200k PPD. Watts usage I'm not overtly concerned about, but will be undervolting all components to at least a small degree. The cost of a 2P C32 would be roughly the same (in actuality a smidge less) as an X58 build if I use the same RAM I already have in either scenario.
 
#14 ·
Isn't better to get one GPU? As I mentioned before everything comes down to these "ppd, cost of builds, watts per day" and resale (upgrade) or other usage.

Edit: Oh, I read again your post. I had same thoughts.. and I would make general upgrade (2600k or 3770k). No reason to go dedicated folding build specially on low budget. You would make better PPD on mainstream hardware and gpu (7970 ~130-150K PPD?) and overall you will be much happier as you can resell or upgrade.
Just my view on this..
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSSETS View Post

Isn't better to get one GPU? As I mentioned before everything comes down to these "ppd, cost of builds, watts per day" and resale (upgrade) or other usage.

Edit: Oh, I read again your post. I had same thoughts.. and I would make general upgrade (2600k or 3770k). No reason to go dedicated folding build specially on low budget. You would make better PPD on mainstream hardware and gpu (7970 ~130-150K PPD?) and overall you will be much happier as you can resell or upgrade.
Just my view on this..
I'm in agreement with you here. Unfortunately folding is expensive.

On a small budget it's best to stick to mainstream highly efficient hardware. If you have a bigger budget, you really need to go all out and get a 2p/4p to be effective.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post

There are no single socket machines currently that can. Only a fast Sr2 or better can anymore.
This isn't true. I was completing bigadv with a single E5-2670 for quite some time.

A 32 core 2P AMD setup will definitely be able to do bigadv. If you want the best bang for your buck without going SWTX, a 2P G34 or a 2P Intel E5 setup will probably be the cheapest solution. You can get both types of CPUs off of ebay for under $200 a pop if you keep an eye out. I've also purchased multiple 2P LGA 2011 motherboards for under $300.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDngrfld View Post

This isn't true. I was completing bigadv with a single E5-2670 for quite some time.

A 32 core 2P AMD setup will definitely be able to do bigadv. If you want the best bang for your buck without going SWTX, a 2P G34 or a 2P Intel E5 setup will probably be the cheapest solution. You can get both types of CPUs off of ebay for under $200 a pop if you keep an eye out. I've also purchased multiple 2P LGA 2011 motherboards for under $300.
Did some more research and it seems you're right.

There are a handful of 1p cpus that can do bigadv at this time. E5-2670 is about the slowest you can go while still completing a bigadv.
There likely aren't any AMD cpus that can. Possibly a 4ghz+ AD G34

Were you completing 8101s in time, or just taking the hit by not completing in time?
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post

Did some more research and it seems you're right.

There are a handful of 1p cpus that can do bigadv at this time. E5-2670 is about the slowest you can go while still completing a bigadv.
There likely aren't any AMD cpus that can. Possibly a 4ghz+ AD G34

Were you completing 8101s in time, or just taking the hit by not completing in time?
I always finished 8101s on time to get the QRB. My upload speed was only 512Kb at the time as well. Took like 20 minutes to upload bigadv WUs.
biggrin.gif
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post

Did some more research and it seems you're right.

There are a handful of 1p cpus that can do bigadv at this time. E5-2670 is about the slowest you can go while still completing a bigadv.
There likely aren't any AMD cpus that can. Possibly a 4ghz+ AD G34

Were you completing 8101s in time, or just taking the hit by not completing in time?
If you can make it on one 2670, buy 2p board and add second cpu later.
 
#21 ·
Ahhhhhh, I remember when you could hack a hexa core to pull bigadv units..... I've looked at 2600k, but honestly a rig based around a L5639 chip offers insane performance/cost that just cannot be ignored. Really budget isn't as much of a factor as space is. Board size must be within the range of large ATX, and all 2P boards I've found, with the exception of C32 based units, are too big. Another factor keeping me from pulling the trigger is the APU 13 conference in 2 weeks. I want to know what is happening with SR before I jump ship on my AM3+ board. If certain performance requirements are there, I could stick with it. I'm also hopeful that AMD updates their server offerings info at that time as well.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

Ahhhhhh, I remember when you could hack a hexa core to pull bigadv units..... I've looked at 2600k, but honestly a rig based around a L5639 chip offers insane performance/cost that just cannot be ignored. Really budget isn't as much of a factor as space is. Board size must be within the range of large ATX, and all 2P boards I've found, with the exception of C32 based units, are too big. Another factor keeping me from pulling the trigger is the APU 13 conference in 2 weeks. I want to know what is happening with SR before I jump ship on my AM3+ board. If certain performance requirements are there, I could stick with it. I'm also hopeful that AMD updates their server offerings info at that time as well.
LGA 2011 2Ps can be had in Plain Jane ATX form factor. I have one sitting next to me.
Supermicro X9DRL-3F
 
#23 ·
There are a number of Supermicro 2P 2011 boards which are ATX size, this for example: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DRL-iF.cfm

They also make 1356 boards that would suit your size limitations. Here's one: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DAL-3.cfm

ZDngrfld is running E5-2400 series Xeons, socket 1356, with nice results, using this board: https://www.asus.com/Commercial_Servers_Workstations/Z9NAD6C/

What's so special about L5639? Hex core, Nehalem, twelve threads at 2.13GHz? Are they going for very cheap? I'd be surprised if you'd get that chip above 3.2GHz, a 2600K usually would clock up to 4.7GHz without too much hassle and at those speeds the SB would win.
The L5639, I'd guess a maximum of 30-35k PPD if it's gonna run Linux, less if going with Windows. 2600K would be around there too, a few k's higher and most likely less power consumption.
 
#24 ·
When I was referring to 2P ATX size constraints, was largely referring to Opteron based options. I looked at 2011 based options, and the boards I could find either didn't have x16 slots, or only one, and/or required RDIMM's. I have two undervolting, high ASIC score 7870 XT's that I'd love to run concurrently, so the x16 size needs to be there. Have to admit I didn't look into 1356 options; that introduces a new wrinkle, will investigate.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

When I was referring to 2P ATX size constraints, was largely referring to Opteron based options. I looked at 2011 based options, and the boards I could find either didn't have x16 slots, or only one, and/or required RDIMM's. I have two undervolting, high ASIC score 7870 XT's that I'd love to run concurrently, so the x16 size needs to be there. Have to admit I didn't look into 1356 options; that introduces a new wrinkle, will investigate.
You're asking a lot from a little ATX board... lol
Can you not find a small case that can hold an E-ATX board? Lian-Li makes some. Rosewill has the Armor-Evo that will fit an E-ATX in a midsized case.
 
#26 ·
I've seen the Lian-Li models, as well as the Rosewill models. While they aren't enormous, they are still substantially larger than I have now, and I don't have the luxury of space. Looked into the 1356 boards, and while they are feature rich, they only have at most one true x16 sized slot. I may just have to wait until I have more space, or go the 2600k route if I don't go X58. @ arvidab, the L5639 is special because it is extremely low voltage, it is laughably cheap, and it can OC to 3.6-4.0 with a good mobo/chip combo, on relatively stock vcore. I would expect a L5639 to beat a 2600k at those clocks.
 
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