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FORIS FG2421 - 120HZ&strobe + VA

1K views 11 replies 6 participants last post by  mdrejhon 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I think the launch price will be higher and maybe even a lot higher. The 240hz spec is a gimmick and is only a form of strobe, so this is going to be a lot like lightboost(hopefully it is as good or better). 1080p just needs to go away. My phone is 1080p.

On a positive note, the VA + 120hz will be awesome especially is the strobe is as good as lightboost. This will make the relatively slow response of VA to be gaming worthy. Plus seeing another panel tech going to a higher refresh rate is kinda inspiring. Maybe we will start t o see IPS/PLS, OLED and others start to go the 120hz route as well.

Wish they went for higher than 1080p.
 
#3 ·
well, 1440p is much more demanding than 1080p (i guess like 30-40% less fps?)

also is the difference really that noticable? because i'm using side-by-side 22" 1680x1050 and 23" 1920x1080 and I don't really see the difference (besides the colors, TN vs IPS, but my IPS is by no means good - dat ag coating...)
 
#4 ·
This topic already includes Eizo FG2421:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/lightboost-g-sync-240hz-low-persistence-lcds-zero-motion-blur
It is a catch-all topic for all strobe backlight monitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan F8 View Post

I think the launch price will be higher and maybe even a lot higher. The 240hz spec is a gimmick and is only a form of strobe, so this is going to be a lot like lightboost(hopefully it is as good or better).
Better. Vastly better than LightBoost.

-- Officially vendor supported
-- Easy button on monitor. No hacks, no tweaks, no utilities!
-- 10x as much contrast ratio as LightBoost
-- No color degradation like LightBoost
-- Works with both AMD and NVIDIA
-- Shorter strobe flash lengths? (TO BE CONFIRMED)

We've come a long way since the days of my Arudino Scanning Backlight Project. Vendors are finally adding low-persistence backlight strobing to monitors (G-SYNC's low persistence strobe mode, and now Eizo Turbo240).
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

This topic already includes Eizo FG2421:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/lightboost-g-sync-240hz-low-persistence-lcds-zero-motion-blur
It is a catch-all topic for all strobe backlight monitors.
Better. Vastly better than LightBoost.

-- Officially vendor supported
-- Easy button on monitor. No hacks, no tweaks, no utilities!
-- 10x as much contrast ratio as LightBoost
-- No color degradation like LightBoost
-- Works with both AMD and NVIDIA
-- Shorter strobe flash lengths? (TO BE CONFIRMED)

We've come a long way since the days of my Arudino Scanning Backlight Project. Vendors are finally adding low-persistence backlight strobing to monitors (G-SYNC's low persistence strobe mode, and now Eizo Turbo240).
Insane. Will this monitor be the best gaming monitor when it comes out? I'm glad I waited and didn't purchase the asus 144hz monitor. Might pick this one up.

Also do you guys know if there will be any other monitors like this coming out in the near future or will this be the definitive gaming monitor to come?
 
#6 ·
It's really hard to say since we don't know the strobe lengths of the FG2421 yet.

Without further testing, and excluding strobe crosstalk effects (lightboost faint-sharp-ghosting, 3D crosstalk, etc), motion blur on modern strobe backlights (e.g. post-LightBoost-era) is mathematically easy to answer:

-- Non-strobed G-SYNC variable refresh rate probably will shine for eliminating stutters/tearing in variable-framerate games.
Minimum possible tracking-based motion blur will be limited by its maximum refresh rate (e.g. 144Hz flickerfree = 1/144sec persistence = ~6.9ms of motion blur = 6.9 pixels of motion blur during 1000 pixels/sec motion during framerate=Hz motion)

-- Strobing is superior when you can maintain triple-digit framerates and want zero motion blur.
Tracking-based motion blur is only limited by strobe flash length (e.g. 1ms strobe flash = 1ms persistence = ~1ms of motion blur = 1 pixel of motion blur during 1000 pixels/sec motion during framerate=Hz motion).

Self-tests of motion blur can easily be done using a motion test such as PixPerAn or www.testufo.com/ghosting -- and findings on modern monitors (especially a LightBoost monitor, that you can enable/disable/adjust refresh rate and strobe length) confirms the mathematic equivalence between persistence and tracking-based motion blur.
 
#7 ·
The Turbo 240 is not the same tecnology of Lightboost ? I speak about to put a black frame between a couple or real frames ?
This Turbo not cause flickering ? If no how is possible this ?

LIghtboost you can set the range between 10% - 100% this Turbo no and i dont know which this mode correspons.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by senna89 View Post

The Turbo 240 is not the same tecnology of Lightboost ? I speak about to put a black frame between a couple or real frames ? This Turbo not cause flickering ? If no how is possible this ?
Lightboost is black frame insertion, too.
LightBoost adds black frames via strobe backlight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s

As for adjusting Turbo240, I'm wondering if adjusting "Brightness" changes strobe length too as well. I'm getting a demo FG2421 this month, so I will find out (execute a photodiode measurement)
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Lightboost is black frame insertion, too.
LightBoost adds black frames via strobe backlight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s

As for adjusting Turbo240, I'm wondering if adjusting "Brightness" changes strobe length too as well. I'm getting a demo FG2421 this month, so I will find out (execute a photodiode measurement)
They're sending you one today then?
tongue.gif


On a technicality, isn't Black Frame Insertion (BFI) a separate thing to strobing? I know the end result is similar but with BFI a black frame is drawn in between actual frames but the backlight remains on. With strobing modes such as LightBoost and Turbo 240 the backlight is rapidly switched on and off.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

They're sending you one today then?
tongue.gif
ETA Next week.
Quote:
On a technicality, isn't Black Frame Insertion (BFI) a separate thing to strobing? I know the end result is similar but with BFI a black frame is drawn in between actual frames but the backlight remains on.
Not necessarily. It can be done either way. It's long been marketed for either technique, too. Yes, I know, confusing.

A good example in point: BENQ AMA-Z in 2006 (an inefficient, mostly useless scanning backlight) was marketed as black frame insertion, but it used the backlight flashing technique. Back in that other era, strobed backlight technology were almost useless because LCD pixel transitions weren't complete between strobes, and only reduced motion blur by a few percent. BENQ adds the Z suffix on the XL2720Z, presumably in homage to yesterday's AMA-Z, but now today's modern high-efficiency strobe backlights have come of age, and finally brings worthwhile CRT motion clarity to LCD.

Only today's ultra-high-efficiency strobe backlights can manage to eliminate motion blur by beyond a full, complete order of magnitude (e.g. >90% less motion blur, >90% shorter blur trail). Instead of insignificant gains to motion clarity of yesterday's attempts at scanning backlight, today we now see true and massive gains to motion clarity.

Also, black frame insertion is not always 50%:50% ratio (and shouldn't be, or it only reduces motion blur by 50%).
 
#12 ·
Glowing review from Morkai on HardForum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morkai
Got it today, set it up, and its great overall.
The first and only LCD so far i'd call good enough for anything, with no big flaws that affect any type of use. The first lcd monitor possible to recommend to people, without knowing what they will use it for.

Here is a picture and some points (have to go out for a while, can test input lag later or tomorrow):

*Can count the windows at the maximum speed on the testufo.com - moving photo. Photo looks just as sharp as lightboost. No ghosting at the fastest speed on bright content. (Mark, if you read this, can't you add faster speeds to the tests?).
*Great overall quality, quality still great in strobemode. (simply used calibrated settings from the review for now).
*Mild coating, it is mildly reflective. I do not personally feel the need to remove it.
*Blacks really look black, as long as there is anything else to contrast with. A pure black screen in a dark room looks dark gray/purplish (ips/tn look bright gray in the same room).
*Does not flicker to my eyes in strobemode (lightboost 120 does flicker for me, mildly - i suspect lightboost just has too short strobes?)
*Uniformity is great, but not perfect. Minor clouding top right corner, only visible in a dark room. Still one of the most uniform lcds i've seen. The macbook pro retina (samsung panel) is still the most uniform LCD i have seen, probably hard to see in this bad picture.

Two cons I can come up with:
*Mild ghosting or overdrive trailing of bright objects on black (such as the testufo). Not visible unless its bright on dark background.
*Does not tilt, it seems? Annoying, as at the highest position the top of the screen is in the middle of my throat

Awarded with the first time ever LCD "bah, it's good enough until OLED" reward!
Picture of Panasonic VT60 in the back, with a macbook pro retina to the left, the eizo middle, and a 7.7" OLED in the corner between the macbook and the eizo. All displaying black screens.
Both the eizo and the macbook have led logos that might reflect on the plasma, but i tried to hide them.
I'll try sort a better pic later.
mSVFg1Ul.jpg
(The screen at left is the Macbook. The EIZO monitor is almost invisible in this photo, displaying a black screen).

And:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morkai
Tried some games now @120fps, and that really gave a "wow" feeling.
The sharpness of LCD, the motion clarity of CRT, great colors and general quality of VA.
 
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