Originally Posted by phill1978
So you dont care if some contractor goes looking into your private data? or your mothers, fathers, sisters..
No, I don't. I've made my peace with it a long time ago and there is little I can do to take down what data I have out there for other people to see.
The NSA has over 30000 employees you have to remember that people there are individuals, like any other large group of people there are good and bad people but the power they own is far too sweeping
I would be more concerned about all the people employed by the IRS, the State Government, whatever Union you're part of or not, the Fed, the Banks, your car manufacturer, GPS workers. That excuse is weak because MILLIONS of people touch and interact with your life everyday. And here's the real kicker, they don't even have to hide the fact that they can access all the private data they've amassed on you. Unlike the NSA. Moreover, private entities are more than willing to exploit your private information as much as possible, unlike state agencies which go through your data for National Security. I assure you, the NSA are far more trustworthy than bored Century Link workers with nothing better to do than screw with their customers. Just kidding, that never happens, right?
Have you ever worked in government have you worked in government along side contractors? Do you think that these people are moral guardians, does that make you feel warm and fuzzy? or are they just taking a pay check and maybe not so nice themselves and as has been proven they have used the systems countless times for personal reasons.
There's something I can do about it? Let me know, I already try to take certain precautions.
Also its true, you have come into all these threads aggressively to try to shut them down. Its clear you have some vested interest here not sure where down the line but you always pop up and you always patronize and insult people. Its why I and others cant take your posts seriously
Because I'm tired of seeing people trying to tell others that there's a 1984 conspiracy going on. To quote myself, "Half of those people never even read the book."
Originally Posted by bad_haze
People discuss because not discussing is not starting to awaken from being brainwashed.
Please, if it was simply a normal discussion I wouldn't have an issue with it. I have a problem with it when people start making baseless assumptions. Not to mention that they're trying to convince others to believe those baseless assumptions.
Take a step back and look at the big global picture. Lots of people around the world are waking up, communicating, networking, and planning through the internet. Shunning communications like this thread is ignorance at its highest level and quite frankly highlights one's own complacency with the world of oppression and slavery they are ensnared in. It highlights a lack of empathy for future generations and really paints someone as an uncaring self-serving ostrich.
P.S. Ostriches put their heads in the sand - blanking out the world around them.
Why don't you take a step back and take a look around? I have bills to pay. I have expectations to fulfill. I live in a system that's designed to restrict me to a certain level of social mobility unless I'm Einstein, and I have to make the best I can do within that system. I don't care about the next NSA conspiracy. I care about my next paycheck. I care about my little sister, and I care about my parent's retirement.
What can any of us do? Band together and storm the barricades? Please, you are welcome to do that by yourself, you're more than welcome to try and rally others behind you. On the other hand, there are certain rational people on this Forum who are not interested in seeing mobs or riots or protests. There are some who realize that these kind of matters hardly ever concern them and are best left alone. There are other more urgent things that need people's attention. Like the ACA, the fact that the ACA website crashed after 51,000 registrations and cost 700 Billion dollars. Or the fact that the Navy's new destroyers cost 3Billion$ a pop. Those are things that require utmost attention from citizens and need to be petitioned and voted for. Not NSA's mess that nobody will ever see or be affected by in the real world. Unless, I don't know, were your girlfriend's nudes found sprayed all over the front page of NSA's website?
Originally Posted by tpi2007
As has been mentioned, this is carried out by humans, just like the guy who leaked all of this, whether you agree with what he did or not, the fact is that he exists, and like him many others may exist, with who knows what motivations.
Snowden is hiding out in Russia right now. For what reasons, god only knows, but I wouldn't trust him. He did us a public service and for that I can praise him, but I'm not gonna pretend that he is an innocent, good Samaritan that many paint him out to be.
The principle here is that giving whoever, no matter his moral standards, an excess of information that is not relevant may lead to abuses. So the principle should be that information should be collected within reason, with justification, so as to prevent possible abuses in the first place. Giving carte blanche to someone you don't know, completely trusting their judgement is giving too much power to one party, it's just a bad principle. That is why in a democracy there are supposed to be checks and balances, to prevent abuses by some that don't follow the rules.
You realize you can go to court with this right? There are in fact, checks and balances for this. Don't be ignorant and pretend there aren't, because if the NSA really did infringe on a good number of people, there would be hell to pay, and that hell would be issued by the Courts.
What is coming to light meaningfully shows the shift of the scales which in practice destroys the concept of democracy - where the people have equal power to the elected government. Not only that, but this situation gets so out of control that you effectively have states within states.
I really enjoyed your flowery speech tpi, but the fact is, the system is working. It's not working perfectly and there are definitely a lot of things that are wrong with this country, but it's one of the best things the civilized world has. We're not slaves, we're not under an authoritarian regime and we're not even heading in that direction, in fact the last 10 years have been moving us into the opposite direction, so I really don't see what there is to be worried about, besides the obvious that is. This isn't a threat against democracy. This is a threat to privacy.
Originally Posted by zooterboy
The problem is, they're trying to predict the future. For example, how do you prevent something like the Boston Marathon bombings? The answer is, you can't. But they are going to take steps to track people that they feel will have a tendency to commit stuff like that.
Are you seriously trying to convince us that security hasn't stopped any bombings? Because that'll be a very short argument. Here's a tip, grab a book on the effects of 9/11 and then come tell me the same thing.
Originally Posted by zooterboy
I agree. The point I was trying to make is, there is no need to have an NSA. When an agency is conducting operations with no oversight, when same agency creates scandal when their daily actions are exposed to the public, they have no reason to exist. I'm trying to avoid politics as much as possible here, but the principle of this invasion of the world's privacy is contrary to the principle of the USA.
Are you going to tell me that we don't need the CIA, FBI, or the US Army either?