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What kind of problem is this? - Page 2

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotonFanatic View Post

Well I returned all the clock speeds to stock and it seems to have gone away. I guess my overclock wasn't as stable as I had first believed. Only thing is, now how do I determine exactly how high I can clock it? You'd think an e8400 would be able to do at least 3.8Ghz, but that's what I've had it set on lately and have been experiencing the problems. I ran that overclock on prime for 4 hours. Is there a newer better program that can determine instability in a shorter amount of time?

No, and there (most probably) will never be such program, since the instability is usually just a erroneous return of an operation, eg. a mathematical calculation (that's btw how p95 "detects" instability, the program knows what the answer should be to this complex mathematical calculation it does, and compares it to the result it gets), and the error can occur in the first minute, or it can even take days of full load. The more instability, the more probability for the error to occur faster. That's why one of the "overclocking thumb rules" is "when you think you got a stable clock, back it down a tiny bit and you're done." rolleyes.gif

Also, all parts degrade over time, especially when running on high clock speeds and voltages etc, so its normal for the "maximum stable clock" to go down by time rolleyes.gif
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post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
I had another thread on a different forum asking if the components of a computer get slower over time. Nobody knew. I'm glad I ran into you here. I have always wondered if they did indeed get slower. The CPU, the RAM, the GPU, the HDD, hell even the chips on the motherboard. Do they ALL get slower as they age? And if so, at what rate? How degraded can one expect a 20 year old computer to be? On all stock clocks, and on a medium, and on high overclocks.

It would stand to reason that yes, with higher voltage and some more heat, they'd age faster. But intel says that the life expectancy of my CPU is a whopping 27 years. Now of course that would be running it stock, but there should be some way to account for the overclock and the age. If they can come up with the "27 years" number, there must be a way to calculate (even if its just ballpark figure) how an overclocked chip would age.

I've noticed "aging" in systems that are off the shelf. Someone will buy a new desktop, and in the beginning, boy that thing is fast. But 5 years goes by, and its time for a reformat and reinstall windows. Wipe the slate clean. Well, the computer should now be as fast as it was when it was new, right? Wrong. It never is. I can only guess that this is some kind of aging. But what components are doing it? Is it just one main one, like the HDD, or is it all of them that are contributing to the slowness.
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post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotonFanatic View Post

I had another thread on a different forum asking if the components of a computer get slower over time. Nobody knew. I'm glad I ran into you here. I have always wondered if they did indeed get slower. The CPU, the RAM, the GPU, the HDD, hell even the chips on the motherboard. Do they ALL get slower as they age? And if so, at what rate? How degraded can one expect a 20 year old computer to be? On all stock clocks, and on a medium, and on high overclocks.

It would stand to reason that yes, with higher voltage and some more heat, they'd age faster. But intel says that the life expectancy of my CPU is a whopping 27 years. Now of course that would be running it stock, but there should be some way to account for the overclock and the age. If they can come up with the "27 years" number, there must be a way to calculate (even if its just ballpark figure) how an overclocked chip would age.

I've noticed "aging" in systems that are off the shelf. Someone will buy a new desktop, and in the beginning, boy that thing is fast. But 5 years goes by, and its time for a reformat and reinstall windows. Wipe the slate clean. Well, the computer should now be as fast as it was when it was new, right? Wrong. It never is. I can only guess that this is some kind of aging. But what components are doing it? Is it just one main one, like the HDD, or is it all of them that are contributing to the slowness.

Well, there is two factors to consider here; the aging/degrading dot actually affect the raw performance itself, but rather the stability and reliability. This means, you cant run a 5 year old cpu on the same clocks than you were able to do when it was brand new, but the raw performance on stock clocks is the same (same amount of operations per cpu cycle), however, the other factor here is, as the stability and reliability goes down, the random error rate starts to increase, that's why some really old components might seem "slower" and have inconsistent performance. Most commonly noticed on old storage devices, and parts that have a high IO use, eg. the SATA controller on the mobo. Basically, all parts in your computer that has directly something to do with performance and/or usability (eg. a HDD, yes, a fan, no) tend to degrade (silicon, among all other new substances to replace silicon, tend to degrade in quality)

A cpu with stock clocks and average use can indeed last at least 30 years, but as said, running stuff under higher clocks decreases the life expectancy, the more clocks, the shorter lifetime. A good example of this was my old 8800GT. It had the Gainward Golden Sample cooler (air) which was a heck lot better than the stock 1-slot cooler, and that's why I managed to get such insane clocks on it, and ended up on the old Record Graphics Cards Overclock thread, as the owner of "the fastest 8800GT 512MB" rolleyes.gif and the downside there was, the card was running on those clocks 24/7, which ended up killing the card's memory controller in 16 months rolleyes.gif when at that time, I had my 7900GTX (can be seen on the same thread) as my 2nd gpu, for 4 monitors, which had less insane overclocks. The 7900GTX still works, I retired it from my rig after ~5 years of service, and now it sits in my sisters computer. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Microx256 - 11/3/13 at 3:35am
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post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
So after about 5 years, its time for a new mobo, processor, GPU, RAM, and HDD. Basically a new computer. I have this plan where I build a rig, and make it last me 5 years. And at 2.5 years old, I replace the GPU simply because you have to. If you want to run modern games and have them look like they were intended to. I must be seeing this slowness in my rig because its simply old now, and time for it to be replaced.
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post #15 of 15
Yeah, judging from your sig rig, at least cpu, mobo and ram could have a nice upgrade rolleyes.gif If you dont want to do all at once, that GPU is not (yet) as outdated as your cpu etc. Another, bigger factor in the "old rig slowness" is psychological; you are used to your setup, you know whats gonna happen when you do something, so then you're basically waiting, which makes it feel slower, because you have to wait. When your rig was new, you were excited and not entirely sure how long anything is gonna take, or how was it gonna run, so mostly everything "felt fast". rolleyes.gif Another psychological factor is that you see all these newer and faster rigs around you, so it obviously makes you feel like your rig is slow. Also 'standards' go up as the time goes; it's not many years ago when one minute was a "good" windows start-up time, but with modern SSD's, a half minute feels long. rolleyes.gif Speaking of, I would also highly suggest to get a SSD drive for your upgrade, if you haven't already planned for it, and keep your current 640GB HDDs for storage only biggrin.gif
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