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[PG] 30,000 Steam Keys Stolen During Wadjet Halloween Promotion. (VIDEO) - Page 4

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackVenom View Post

Said Blameless. : ) But how is Steam to blame exactly?

Steam(Valve) is to blame for how Steam keys work.

The way it stands now, people can easily collect and horde free keys. Keys generated for such on-line giveaways should have a much faster expiration, and the ability to be regenerated after expiration by the event host. Instead of making a deal for the number of keys distributed, it should be for the number of keys redeemed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

Not every human makes decisions. Many humans are genetically predisposed to following certain behavioral and thought patterns. It would in fact be ridiculous to say that human statistics about behavioral patterns were a choice, even though it evolved naturally and without decision.

That is to say that individuals may or may not make decisions, but large groups of people are guided by an underlying principle determined by our genetics and course of evolution. These people are merely a force of evolution

These influences, while not to be discounted, do not predetermine anything, they do not remove freedom of choice.

Those incapable of exercising free-will are not persons, regardless of what species their genes say they belong to.
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post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Steam(Valve) is to blame for how Steam keys work.

The way it stands now, people can easily collect and horde free keys. Keys generated for such on-line giveaways should have a much faster expiration, and the ability to be regenerated after expiration by the event host. Instead of making a deal for the number of keys distributed, it should be for the number of keys redeemed.
These influences, while not to be discounted, do not predetermine anything, they do not remove freedom of choice.

Those incapable of exercising free-will are not persons, regardless of what species their genes say they belong to.

What do you mean those influences don't predetermine anything? They predetermine the odds that something will happen. It's like probabilities from a poker deck--you don't always guess the specific card right , but you do calculate the odds that certain cards will show up, and you bet on the most likely average. It's also the entire basis for quantum physics. Freedom of choice is often, but not always, an illusion for predetermined, genetic based behavioral patterns. people believe they are making their own choices, but they often don't. Advertisement is a prime example of this.

Statistical patterns are not a choice made by an individual, and therefore neither is the fact that a bunch of people made the decision to steal these keys. Individually, the person may or may not have made the choice; They are just operating within the normal parameters of a free market, which is to get every advantage possible.
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post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

What do you mean those influences don't predetermine anything?

Influence is not predetermination. Sapient beings have will, and will can act against inclination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

They predetermine the odds that something will happen. It's like probabilities from a poker deck--you don't always guess the specific card right , but you do calculate the odds that certain cards will show up, and you bet on the most likely average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

Statistical patterns are not a choice made by an individual, and therefore neither is the fact that a bunch of people made the decision to steal these keys.

An event being statistically inevitable is a completely different argument than saying the individual actors responsible for an event lacked the capacity to choose.

Even if the chances of this event occurring was 100%, every single individual involved had a clear choice.

Also, not all choices are the same for everyone, but difficulty of a choice does not imply lack of one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

Freedom of choice is often, but not always, an illusion for predetermined, genetic based behavioral patterns.

This is nonsense. Anything dependent on the somatic nervous system for action is willful and thus subject to choice.

Very few people do not have voluntary control over their fingers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

people believe they are making their own choices, but they often don't.

The only sure way to abdicate your freedom of choice is to believe you do not have one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

Individually, the person may or may not have made the choice themself. They are just operating within the normal parameters of a free market, which is to get every advantage possible.

None of this changes the fact that these individuals did have a choice.

I'm not making any moral or ethical judgements here. I'm not saying they were right or wrong. I am saying that they chose to do what they did, and that regardless of their genetics, regardless of their upbringing, regardless of the "parameters of a free market", they had the ability to chose whether to click once, or more than once.
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post #34 of 36
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post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dioxholster View Post

why would anyone want this game?
post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Influence is not predetermination. Sapient beings have will, and will can act against inclination.

An event being statistically inevitable is a completely different argument than saying the individual actors responsible for an event lacked the capacity to choose.

Even if the chances of this event occurring was 100%, every single individual involved had a clear choice.

Also, not all choices are the same for everyone, but difficulty of a choice does not imply lack of one.
This is nonsense. Anything dependent on the somatic nervous system for action is willful and thus subject to choice.

Very few people do not have voluntary control over their fingers.
The only sure way to abdicate your freedom of choice is to believe you do not have one.
None of this changes the fact that these individuals did have a choice.

I'm not making any moral or ethical judgements here. I'm not saying they were right or wrong. I am saying that they chose to do what they did, and that regardless of their genetics, regardless of their upbringing, regardless of the "parameters of a free market", they had the ability to chose whether to click once, or more than once.

influence is a kind of predetermination. You wouldn't disagree with the fact that likely events occur more often than less likely events. Likeliness determines outcomes on average. Thus on average humans do not overcome their inclinations.

In a jar with 90 blue marbles and 10 red marbles, it is predetermined that the chance of pulling out a blue marble is 90%. It was similarly highly likely that people would take advantage of these keys, and thus patterns of evolution should not be blamed, like how gravity should not be blamed for a bridge falling instead of engineering flaws.

I also never said that people lacked the capacity to choose. I'm just saying people may or may not make a decision out of free will. I gave advertisement as an example.

The "choice" you bring up is really irrelevant on any large scale. What matters at a large scale, in other words, what most people do, is genetically influenced behavioral patterns. Large scale statistical patterns are obviously determined by evolution ;it improves human survivability by making humans follow behavior sets which best support the survival of the species.

Again, this was never about people's ability to make decisions or not. You keep bringing that up, but i never said that people lack the ability, only that they don't always make a conscious decision. People can make decisions, but sometimes they don't make decisions out of free will--they depend on gut feeling, or instinct, or something.

And i also wasn't turning this into a discussion of morals, nor did i mention morals at all.

"Anything dependent on the somatic nervous system for action is willful and thus subject to choice.
Very few people do not have voluntary control over their fingers."

Do you have some proof of this or some neurological journal source? I doubt you do because there is a very small amount of scientific understanding about free will and consciousness, given that it is emergent behavior. And you don't always have voluntary control of fingers, like when you burn them on the stove. Studies also show that when you move your hands, your brain already made the decision five seconds before you think you did--I.E. they can predict when you will do some movement before you do it. I'll give you the source if you want it.
Edited by serp777 - 11/4/13 at 2:46am
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