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[BBC] Uproar over mobile app which allows users to control insects from their phone - Page 5  

post #41 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox View Post

I'm very familiar of what happens in nature thanks.. I have snakes as pets and also breed the rats they eat, so I'm not just blindly going around saying this is cruel and unusual. The snakes need to eat and it's the sad truth and I hate that I bring the cute little buggers into the world just to be killed at one point, to make matters worse some of my snakes won't eat frozen thawed, not that the manners for pre killing rats to freeze is any less terrible and sometimes more so.
Can you actually state for a fact that insect have no concept of pain or distress? I would take your post alot more serious if you weren't just blindly art tacking those who have questions regarding the matter...

How am I blindly attacking anyone? I'm just saying that trying to apply an human emotional state to an insect is a very flawed way of thinking. I'm quite lazy so the wikipedia is going to have to be good enough "proof.

So first lets define "pain"

Zimmerman: "an aversive sensory experience caused by actual or potential injury that elicits protective motor and vegetative reactions, results in learned avoidance and may modify species-specific behaviour, including social behaviour."

Then lest move on

wikipedia "Pain in invertebrates"
Quote:
Although there are numerous definitions of pain, almost all involve two key components. First, nociception is required. This is the ability to detect noxious stimuli which evokes a reflex response that moves the entire animal, or the affected part of its body, away from the source of the stimulus. The concept of nociception does not imply any adverse, subjective 'feeling' - it is a reflex action. The second component is the experience of 'pain' itself, or suffering, i.e. the internal, emotional interpretation of the nociceptive experience. Pain is therefore a private, emotional experience. Pain cannot be directly measured in other animals, including other humans; responses to putatively painful stimuli can be measured, but not the experience itself.
Quote:
Though it has been argued that most invertebrates do not feel pain,[21][22][23] there is some evidence that invertebrates, especially the decapod crustaceans (e.g. crabs and lobsters) and cephalopods (e.g. octopuses), exhibit behavioural and physiological reactions indicating they may have the capacity for this experience.[24][5][6] Nociceptors have been found in nematodes, annelids and molluscs.[25] Most insects do not possess nociceptors,[26][27][28] one known exception being the fruit fly.[29] In vertebrates, endogenous opioids are neurochemicals that moderate pain by interacting with opiate receptors. Opioid peptides and opiate receptors occur naturally in nematodes,[30][31] molluscs,[32][33] insects[34][35] and crustaceans.[36][37] The presence of opioids in crustaceans has been interpreted as an indication that lobsters may be able to experience pain,[38][39] although it has been claimed "at present no certain conclusion can be drawn".[38]
One suggested reason for rejecting a pain experience in invertebrates is that invertebrate brains are too small. However, brain size does not necessarily equate to complexity of function.[40] Moreover, weight for body-weight, the cephalopod brain is in the same size bracket as the vertebrate brain, smaller than that of birds and mammals, but as big as or bigger than most fish brains.[41][42]

The nervous system of an roach is not complex enough to generate an pain response much less process an emotional state such as suffering. You rip off an roach leg and the thing continues business as usual (though with reduced mobility obviously).

If we where talking about doing this to an animal with even a slither of intelligence like an mouse or bird then I would agree with it being unethical but like I said its a friking roach.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 11/11/13 at 12:02am
    
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post #42 of 167
Okay... WTAF? Everyone wants to bicker about whether a cockroach feels duress from this... who cares!? They're cockroaches, they probably out number humans about 100 to 1 on this planet, and for the love of god, they're insects which can reproduce faster than rabbits.... How about people actually look at the big picture yet again. If they can create a remote control device for a roach, why stop there? What is there to stop them from doing this with bigger animals, even predatory animals, let alone from doing it with people. Jesus, has everyone and their uncle never heard of MK Ultra? And that was misguided and misinformed use of drugs and hypnosis to plant suggestive triggers to make people do things... with a remote control, hell, you can access it from anywhere with a signal (which is about anywhere on Earth if it's got a GPS transponder)... Call me a tin hatter as you please and many probably will, but never under estimate the evil that human beings, especially those that lust for power, are capable of. This is a device and concept that never should have been approached, not for the ethical view of causing an insect pain or duress, but for what should be the more immediate moral stigma and ethical conflict presenting itself of overriding another being's brain and making them do things outside of their own free will. The world needs to learn that the people coming up with this kind of crap more often than not have an acute case of Rectal Collar Syndrome and almost never think along the lines of "You know, just because we can, doesn't mean we should."
Edited by SpacemanSpliff - 11/12/13 at 12:44am
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post #43 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateN34 View Post

Inhumane to cockroaches? What is wrong with people in this world?

You call exterminators to kill hundreds and thousands of them. You step on them and throw poisons on them. Yet when we control one(at a time) roach, it is inhumane?

The people moaning need to get their heads checked.

How dare you try and bring reason in this thread!
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post #44 of 167
would be good to check out radioactive environement , since it does very little harm to them and it ruins electronics...
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post #45 of 167
ROFL at the guys defending roaches. lachen.gif
post #46 of 167

Ah yeah. I need to get me about 5 of these and have some "Roach" races. :applaud:

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post #47 of 167
they do make some roach race , i think it is in germany or england
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post #48 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post


lachen.gif
post #49 of 167
Battle_Bugs.gif

Battle Bugs anyone ? Bugs in Espionage !
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post #50 of 167
I'm pretty sure the concern lies not with the cockroaches, (I couldn't care less about a cockroach) but with the implementation of this kind of device on a living creature.
To physically CONTROL another animal is straight up weird, If you cant see a problem with that then I'm not sure who can help you.


This could turn out to be a good thing in the long run, or it could get out of hand and cross many of what can be considered moral boundaries
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