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Steelseries Rival in depth review - Page 39

post #381 of 462
Gnrtb, I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted me.

I suppose many are conditioned to believe that certain sensors are perfect or offer absolute accuracy. Some sensors or setups will get close depending on optimizations or implementation, but there are too many variables that need to be considered.

Even his testing can skew based on surface material.
Edited by jsx3 - 4/29/14 at 3:05am
post #382 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

Consistent accel is well memorizable. It means that every speed has a set distance. If you go at speed a you move x counts, at speed b you move y counts etc.
Look at some Quake pros, like mew, who use custom accel drivers to be able to aim accurately but move fast.
Yes I heard that 1 to a million pro FPS player will play with acceleration.
I think if they use for example 2 speeds, 1 for slow movements and 1 for fast, with a clear threshold, it could be memorized. But if you get 2% pos acceleration on 2m/s , 4% on 4m/s, this wouldn't be very easy to get used to (or maybe impossible) as you don't really know what speed you move the mouse at ... You can only feel how much effort you use, and obviously after 30 mins of playing low-sens you would have to put much more effort for the same speed, so it's not an indicator.
Do you have some garphs or something that shows the acceleration some players use ?

Still all in all this is extremely disappointing to see this, the mouse doesn't offer an especially good shape\buttons\weight\driver\anything whatsoever (ROFL anti-sweat coating) except the sensor, which is way way out of the league of the Deathadder from this video.
Edited by gnrtb - 4/29/14 at 4:01am
post #383 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

I was under the impression that A3090 had no accel, but recently when investigating claims of accel on the G502 I found out that the A3090 (apparently just like the 3310 in your test) does have slight positive accel. It was so minimal however that I did not notice it playing, only in comparisons to the G502 which actually seemed to have no accel at all.

I made a YouTube video comparing G502 and Zowie EC1 eVo CL, can't link now on my phone, but it's in one of the G502 threads. I also did the same test with the G400 which had the same results as the Zowie.

Could you test the G502 with your machine too? I know Logitech has their own equipment for this and from my testing it seems their claims are all true, but I'd be interested in results by you anyway.

do you own any logitech mice advertised as having delta zero technology other then the g502? If so, i'd appreciate it if you tested one of those.
post #384 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

Consistent accel is well memorizable. It means that every speed has a set distance. If you go at speed a you move x counts, at speed b you move y counts etc.
Look at some Quake pros, like mew, who use custom accel drivers to be able to aim accurately but move fast.

ofcourse it is.
as long as it's consistent you can adapt to positive accel, just like to negative (think of all the intelli 1.1, 3.0 players).
post #385 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by smog11 View Post

I am sure the surface was clean, and optic the same.
The 3310 is one of the best sensor. Its acceleration is noticeable especially in hand test.
I no longer have this model, This I had was one of the firs release. Possible that something improved in the new firmware.
From what i heard a Mionix has created a firmware renewals.
From 3310 i prefer more 3988, 3095 (one mice - g400), 3090 (the same level - because it is little bit sharper but has lower v-max), and possibly 3888.
It is still much better than any laser.
I wrote to my suppliers about the g502

thanks for the video, Smog! was very interesting and i look forward to you posting results for the g502 as well!



As for the topic of acceleration being adaptable, i would think that if acceleration is consistent but linear, so the acceleration becomes more significant the faster you move, while it would be adaptable, it would increase the player's margin for error because not only are you not going to be 100% consistent with distance, you aren't going to be 100% consistent with speed. However if there are two speeds it tracks at, one above a certain speed and the other below that speed, then that should be adaptable and shouldn't increase the margin for error because it shouldn't be difficult to be consistently above or below that threshold when you intend to be above or below it.
post #386 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnrtb View Post

Yes I heard that 1 to a million pro FPS player will play with acceleration.
I think if they use for example 2 speeds, 1 for slow movements and 1 for fast, with a clear threshold, it could be memorized. But if you get 2% pos acceleration on 2m/s , 4% on 4m/s, this wouldn't be very easy to get used to (or maybe impossible) as you don't really know what speed you move the mouse at ... You can only feel how much effort you use, and obviously after 30 mins of playing low-sens you would have to put much more effort for the same speed, so it's not an indicator.
Do you have some garphs or something that shows the acceleration some players use ?

Still all in all this is extremely disappointing to see this, the mouse doesn't offer an especially good shape\buttons\weight\driver\anything whatsoever (ROFL anti-sweat coating) except the sensor, which is way way out of the league of the Deathadder from this video.

Bu..Bu... TeH SMOOTHING!!!
post #387 of 462
Acceleration is memorizable. I have distinctly improved aim from using the Avior from the old Sensei. Whereas with swipes that are very similar you will end up in almost exactly the same spot (just not quite due to human errors) with the 3310, the 9500 will overshoot by perceivably random amounts, making it nearly unusable.
L1m1t
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L1m1t
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post #388 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal571 View Post

Acceleration is memorizable. I have distinctly improved aim from using the Avior from the old Sensei. Whereas with swipes that are very similar you will end up in almost exactly the same spot (just not quite due to human errors) with the 3310, the 9500 will overshoot by perceivably random amounts, making it nearly unusable.

There's no reason to defend it, dude... This is the next phase of needing something else to complain about. First came refresh rate issues, then angle snapping/prediction, then LOD, then random acceleration. At that point in time we found "perfect" sensors, but then the forum got boring, so the super humans among us decided that that was unacceptable, so they began using their feelings and perceptions to create new issues. This gave us smoothing. Now, we've found minute amounts of consistent acceleration that can only be realized on a railed machine, which will be completely offset by the natural movement of the human arm, and that's MUCH worse than the game breaking issue of SMOOOOOOOOOOTHING!!!
post #389 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineDark View Post

There's no reason to defend it, dude... This is the next phase of needing something else to complain about. First came refresh rate issues, then angle snapping/prediction, then LOD, then random acceleration. At that point in time we found "perfect" sensors, but then the forum got boring, so the super humans among us decided that that was unacceptable, so they began using their feelings and perceptions to create new issues. This gave us smoothing. Now, we've found minute amounts of consistent acceleration that can only be realized on a railed machine, which will be completely offset by the natural movement of the human arm, and that's MUCH worse than the game breaking issue of SMOOOOOOOOOOTHING!!!

HAHA wow I never thought it would come to this. Guess what guys! Now the 3310 is trash because it has minor consistent acceleration almost undetectable by human use! We can't possibly use it!
L1m1t
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post #390 of 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineDark View Post

Bu..Bu... TeH SMOOTHING!!!
What references you have that it has worse smoothing than the rest of the top FPS mice ? rolleyes.gif
And with all the respect, I'm just playing casually and paid a ton for the best possible sensor to have 0 acceleration ... "upgrading" from a deathadder !
We should really find out if the avior 7000 has the same acceleration or maybe it's just a firmware thing that we can ask SS to fix, just like the CPI bug we had.

And before you jump laughing at "super human" players , you might want to watch some videos of pro CS\quake players and see what real people can do.
Just an example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq4qhsTWSM4
play it at slow motion. He shoots way before he can actually see and confirm that he's on target , some of the aiming is done "blindly", 100% muscle memory without using feedback from the monitor. This is just a random example and there are better ones. So if you can get a mouse that will allow this and a mouse that won't for the same price, what will you get ?
Edited by gnrtb - 4/29/14 at 10:23am
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