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[AMD/YT] AMD Mantle Technical Deep Dive - APU13 Event - PC Perspective - Page 8

post #71 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheyster View Post

DirectX is a very core part of Windows now. Yes, it is an API, but it is very tightly integrated with the OS at this point. I would not call it Middleware/Middle Man/etc. It's been around for a very long time and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

It's amusing that so many have such high hopes for something that is essentially vaporware that has been hyped up by a hardware manufacturer. Call me skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. rolleyes.gif

What is up with your semantic acrobatics? It is middleware. "Middleware is computer software that provides services to software applications beyond those available from the operating system."
That is what DirectX does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

Make Nvidia pay big box for mantle. They weren't going to let AMD in on any of their proprietary toys.

Eh, their proprietary toys either suck are made non-starters by their exclusivity. G-Sync is a great example of a great idea that will gain little traction because without the whole gamer market to sell to we will see very little G-Sync capable monitors from manufacturers. With PhysX, GPU based physics simulation, they could have had something revolutionary. But because no AAA developer is going to cut out half their market it only gets used for particle effects and some floating debris.

Nvidia is the king of making interesting or potentially useful features and then ensuring they don't get used to their full potential. It is a shame really.
Edited by Mygaffer - 11/13/13 at 10:13pm
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post #72 of 119
so how will mantle affect dx11 features like diffusion depth of field, hbao+, tesselation, etc

are they gonna have to implement them separately
post #73 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolladan View Post

so how will mantle affect dx11 features like diffusion depth of field, hbao+, tesselation, etc

are they gonna have to implement them separately

They can port them over no problem, Mantle has all the same capabilities and more. I think they explicitly said that Mantle would go nowhere if they couldn't directly port all the DX shader effects. Not quite sure about things like HBAO+ though since I think it has been implemented by Nvidia in it's sponsored titles.
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post #74 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantsu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolladan View Post

so how will mantle affect dx11 features like diffusion depth of field, hbao+, tesselation, etc

are they gonna have to implement them separately

They can port them over no problem, Mantle has all the same capabilities and more. I think they explicitly said that Mantle would go nowhere if they couldn't directly port all the DX shader effects.

Correct, AMD said that Mantle is directly compatible with DX11 shaders. This would imply that you don't even need to port them.
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post #75 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Saved View Post

All FB3 games will utilize mantle.
Next Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Battlefront, Mirror's edge games will have Mantle renderer confirmed? Or is it just possibility they talked about earlier?
post #76 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adglu View Post

Next Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Battlefront, Mirror's edge games will have Mantle renderer confirmed? Or is it just possibility they talked about earlier?

Yes, during Johan Andersson keynote speech on "Rendering Battlefield 4 with Mantle" there was a slide that was shown depicting all of the games that Mantle will be powering. The titles you mentioned were some of the titles on that slide.
post #77 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adglu View Post

Next Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Battlefront, Mirror's edge games will have Mantle renderer confirmed? Or is it just possibility they talked about earlier?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436341/ign-ea-has-15-frostbite-games-in-development-mantle-confirmed-to-be-part-of-frostbite/0_20

expect more. we can assume any game under frostbite 3 will have mantle in it somewhat. How well tuned it will be for each title will depend on the developer i guess.
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post #78 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

DirectX is not a standard. A standard is basically a set of "rules" that everyone abides by so that the components fit together no matter who makes them. It removes fragmentation.

DirectX is simply an API, and a proprietary API at that; it only operates on the Windows operating system. It creates fragmentation because anyone that wants to develop for more than one platform has to use a different set of tools.

That's like saying Nvidia's PhysX is a standard.

You're confusing industry standards with industry status quo.

Why you would prefer developers to use a proprietary API that glues you to one operating system is beyond me.

hmmsmiley02.gif

Nvidia's PhysX would be a standard if every game (or a large majority of games) used it.

DirectX is a standard. It is an API that allows developers to write code that will run on any DirectX capable device. AMD, NV, Intel, etc. If you want to write a program that uses graphics cards, you have to write it in DirectX (or OpenGL/CL but it's less popular).

That makes it a standard.
Edited by coachmark2 - 11/14/13 at 9:52am
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post #79 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

This pretty much sounds like Mantle is tied to GCN ...

"Will be able to" is not necessarily the same thing as "can only".
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Without the bottlenecks it had it would've been at the time though.

This is like saying, "if our fantasy was reality instead of reality being reality, this product would take the performance crown".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantsu View Post

Non AFR rendering looks promising

Which is ironic, since other multi-GPU rendering techniques like scanline interleave, SFR, and, supertiling, used to predominate, but were depreciated in favor of AFR, because AFR scaled better.

Now that attention has been drawn to AFR's enormous downsides (inconsistent frame intervals and need to have a larger pre-render queue), we see something of a reversal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post

What is up with your semantic acrobatics? It is middleware. "Middleware is computer software that provides services to software applications beyond those available from the operating system."
That is what DirectX does.

DirectX doesn't fit this definition because DirectX is a fundamental part of Windows and has been for some time.

DirectX is part of the OS and as such is not "an application or service beyond those available from the operating system."
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

That makes it a standard.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/standard

When people are talking about computing standards and APIs, they are referring to the fourth definition on that list, i.e something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality. PhysX and D3D are standards in this respect because various and specific rules must be met for them to be what they are, and to be implemented/used.

You seem to be referring more to the third definition, i.e. something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example. In this case PhysX, especially of the hardware acclerated sort, is far from standard, because it's not implemented in a majority of games and even where it is, only a minority are using the hardware accelerated version.
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post #80 of 119
So if I name the future games instead of game developers which are expected to support Mantle, the list should look like this:
  • Battlefield
  • Need for Speed
  • Dragon Age
  • Mass Effect
  • Battlefront
  • Mirror's Edge
  • Star Citizen
  • Nitrous
  • THIEF

Pretty and solid. Game Developers and Publishers are known by the games they've created/published, an average user like myself won't care who writes and sells the code.
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