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[Fudzilla] AMD sheds more light on Mantle - Page 3

post #21 of 354
Nvidia's GPU's on Intel's 22nm Process..... Joygasm
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post #22 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingduqc View Post

I don't see many of us having 3-4 780ti even on OCN, yet alone in the GPU market. Money is always an issue and you want the best you can get with the budget you got. So yes price/performance is really the key. Specially considering they offer 290 that are witthing 780ti performance by 10% and they offer it 60% cheaper.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know I can't afford even one 780ti or 290x right now, but there is no point in upgrading for me. What really irks me though is when people make this huge aurgument about price/performance and how they are getting the most for their money..then sell their card 6 months later when something new and shiny comes out. They end up taking a huge loss, just so they can have the newest thing when, chances are, their old GPU setup could already play 90% of games maxed out. And guess what? 6 months later they do it again.

Not saying that you do this, just venting a bit. People that upgrade every gen have no room to gripe about price/performance.
post #23 of 354
The only thing that really concerns me is how often the word "Developers" are used in conjunction with Mantle. If that is "game developers" and not "graphics engine developers"...I don't see Mantle getting used. If the developer has to do all this extra work for Mantle they will will not do it when they could just basically check a box and have their game ported over to DirectX or OpenGL.

However, if you go looking around you can find much better articles than the source here...if it is true AMD is trying to change a lot of processes in the rendering world. I am in the "it is too good to be true" mode so far...I have to see it in action for my self.
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post #24 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagpirate View Post

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know I can't afford even one 780ti or 290x right now, but there is no point in upgrading for me. What really irks me though is when people make this huge aurgument about price/performance and how they are getting the most for their money..then sell their card 6 months later when something new and shiny comes out. They end up taking a huge loss, just so they can have the newest thing when, chances are, their old GPU setup could already play 90% of games maxed out. And guess what? 6 months later they do it again.

Not saying that you do this, just venting a bit. People that upgrade every gen have no room to gripe about price/performance.


They want to be at cutting edge without selling drugs? Selling a gpu and buying a new one usually cost not that much really. Maybe 100-150$. If you think about it in 5-6 years they just really spend 400-600$ (Price of a signe high end gpu) But they had the best gpu for few years straight..
post #25 of 354
Mantle might be supported by architectures other than GCN, but I wouldn't expect all cards to benefit from it the same way that GCN does. Low level API's can't benefit an architecture that they aren't specifically coded for; it's just that simple. My guess is that Mantle also contains the programming juice required to act as a Direct X style API as well, so that developers can bypass Direct X altogether.
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post #26 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisaroth View Post

If mantle is just a directx replacement then nvidia doesn't even need to team-up with intel. And think that in a previous thread i read that nvidia already has their own API but no one uses it.

I'm still a little sceptical, i think that only devs that are bribed by AMD will implement mantle. And i don't think AMD can afford to keep bribing every big game dev.

I wonder if directx/opengl can be changed to a queueing system if it is really more performant than blocking the thread (isn't that what directx/opengl does?).

Actually, people do use NVAPI. For example, the flag ship game that AMD has been pushing Mantle on, Battlefield 4, not only uses Mantle, but NVAPI, and DirectX.

I agree with your skepticism though. While there are more and more game developers signing on to Mantle, they still are using the NVAPI as well. That was one of my concerns, that it will just cause "double work" (actually triple, since they will also have to support DirectX too) and add the chance for one or more to be less optimized and have more graphical bugs. That is why I honestly hope that nVidia and Intel can use Mantle.

That too is a possibility, and now BOTH AMD and nVidia are saying they will be working harder for OpenGL ... mainly for Linux. Hopefully OpenGL will make a bigger comeback to Windows and give DirectX a run for the money.
post #27 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagpirate View Post

"OCN: the pursuit of price/performance." biggrin.gif

thumb.gif

Does anyone think Mantle will have a negative effect on gpu sales / upgrades?
post #28 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingduqc View Post

They want to be at cutting edge without selling drugs? Selling a gpu and buying a new one usually cost not that much really. Maybe 100-150$. If you think about it in 5-6 years they just really spend 400-600$ (Price of a signe high end gpu) But they had the best gpu for few years straight..

I see your point, and I agree but: this simply doesn't apply to me. At 1080p my 690 still outperforms any single card solution around, so why would I take a loss to get less/same performance? I wouldn't. A 690 is still top dog when it comes to 1080p and it's last gen tech. That's essentially the point
I'm trying to make: just because something is new doesn't mean it's better.
post #29 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeeo View Post

thumb.gif

Does anyone think Mantle will have a negative effect on gpu sales / upgrades?

Well, if they make it so that it works on older/cheaper cards (so far it only is slated to work on GCN cards ie 77xx and newer cards), then yes, AMD will be cutting off a good revenue stream ... IF Mantle will really give a 20% performance upgrade like some are claiming. I mean 20% is a heck of a boost. There isn't typically that much of a gain from one entire generation to another in the same class (ie 7970 vs R9 290X or 6970 to 7970, etc.) depending on the generation and benchmark. So if you can get a 20% boost in speed for free just because a game supports Mantle now, that means that people will be happy with their current "old card" for longer and not feel the need to upgrade for a couple more months.

By limiting Mantle to GCN only (and not allowing anything older than a 79xx AMD card to take advantage), IF the 20% speed increase pans out, that will be a hell of a carrot for current AMD users to upgrade to newer GCN cards.

Now that you got people wanting to upgrade to a newer card, if you make it so Mantle only works on AMD cards, you further limit people to "jump ship" to nVidia, even if nVidia comes out with a faster card.

Thus, logically, it only makes sense, from a business point of view, for AMD to limit Mantle to work on "newer AMD only" cards. That is, despite the rumors and wishes of everyone, I think that Mantle will be only for AMD cards and only for GCN and newer cards. I seriously doubt AMD would spend money to help people not spend money and upgrade ... and certainly they aren't going to spend money so that people can spend money by buying their competitors products.

My 2 cents.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 11/14/13 at 8:43am
post #30 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeeo View Post

thumb.gif

Does anyone think Mantle will have a negative effect on gpu sales / upgrades?

You know that is an interesting thing to think about. I think if it's a success, people might stick with their 7000 series cards longer, squeezing that extra bit of performance out of them until they have to upgrade. Also, if it's a significant performance upgrade it might negatively effect nvidias sales and market share. There could be a Mass migration to the red side...unless nvidia adopts mantle or it's own equivalent..
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