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Expert help with i5 3570K with BIOSTAR TZ77B

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hello fellow overclockers

I need your expert advice. I have read as much as I can find on overclocking and I am trying to find a stable run at 4.2Ghz.

Cooling with a Corsair H60

BIOS:

Multiplier set at 42
Vcore settings (I know it sucks, the motherboard only allows weird increments):
-0.096 / -0.072 / -0.048 / -0.024 /
+0.012 / +0.024 / +0.036 / +0.048

RESULTS (CPU-Z, CORE TEMP, PRIME95):

I played around with the Vcore settings, (at 100% load) CPU-Z showed 1.094V to 1.160V; and Core Temps results were 65C-73C.

-I started at -0.072V ran stable at full load for about 2 hours, then got a WHEA-logger Type 19 error in event viewer (but no blue screen).
-Upped it to -0.048V ran stable, went to bed and woke up to a bluescreen.
-Upped again at -0.024V and bluescreen in less than 2 hours.

I'm not sure where to go from here. If I keep going to +0.012V Vcore, I'm going to hit 1.200V at load. This can't be a normal range for a liquid cool system.

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS: I'm not sure what to do with these settings...

Vcc IO: auto, default (1.05V) or + 5%, 10%, 15%
Vcc SA: auto, default (0.925) or + 5%, 10%, 15%
CPU C1E: enabled or disabled
Intel Speed Step Tech: you want to enable this to reduce voltage on cpu while idling right? Doesn't it work in conjunction with your Vcore?
Clock speed spectrum: you want this disabled right?
Internal PLL Overdrive: you want this disable as well right?

In short, I can't get a stable run at 4.2GHz, please help!
Edited by CCNAstudent - 11/16/13 at 10:40am
post #2 of 24
Liquid cooling doesn't really affect the voltage needed to be stable at a given frequency. The H60 may be a water cooling part but it performs significantly worse than a twin tower air cooler. Still, you might wan't to get some good thermal paste and try to reseat your cpu block. Btw, 1.2v isn't unheard of for 4.2 ghz, my 3570k needs 1.28 for 4.4 ghz.

I don't have your board, so i downloaded the manual and looked at the pretty pictures. Now, you first need to find your minimum required voltage for your target frequency.

Let's start from scratch:

1) Reset cmos and load optimized defaults.

2) Disable turbo and speedstep (we will re-enable them latter when we know our target max vcore)
To do this goto Advanced Settings -> CPU configuration and disable C3 and C6 states. Goto O.N.E. and set C1e -> disabled, CPU Turbo Mode -> disabled, Fixed Cpu Ratio -> enabled, CPU vcore -> Fixed Mode.

3) Disable spread spectrum. Goto O.N.E. -> CPU Spread Spectrum -> disabled

4) Remove wattage and amp restrictions. Goto O.N.E. and set Cpu Core Current Max at something over 200. Do the same for Power Limit Values.

5) Set your memory by spd. Goto O.N.E. DDR3 Timing Control -> by SPD.

6) If you have a graphics card disable igpu. Chipset -> Graphics Configuration -> Internal Graphics -> disable.

7) Now set your preferred multiplier and vcore. Goto O.N.E. and set your multiplier in CPU Ratio and your vcore.

Save, reboot and enter windows. Fire up real temp and cpuz (or HWMonitor), and Intel Burn Test (IBT). Check available Ram in IBT and select Custom stress level. Input your available ram - 100mb and press start. If it crashes or freezes go into Bios raise the vcore and repeat. During those tests pay attention to your temps and vcore. Avoid going over 80c and vcore 1.32v. When you manage to complete the 10 passes of IBT click start -> run -> Event Viewer. Goto System Logs -> System and look for Whea errors. If everything is good upto now get the latest prime95 version and run a blend test for 24 hours. It sound excessive but its the only way to be sure that you completed all ffts without issues. Also make sure NONE of your workers stopped during testing and recheck for Whea errors. Since your board doesn't seem to have llc settings in order to find the target vcore, when you've found your stable settings fire up prime, select In place large ffts and click ok. Note the vcore.

Now that you've found your multi and vcore, lets do it with offset voltage instead. Goto your bios:
Advanced Settings -> CPU configuration and enable C3 and C6 states. Goto O.N.E. and set C1e -> enabled, CPU Turbo Mode -> enabled, Fixed Cpu Ratio -> disabled, CPU vcore -> Offset Mode. Add a little vcore voltage save and reboot. In windows, run cpuz/HWMonitor and prime. Select In place large ffts in prime and press ok. Check the voltage in cpuz/HWMonitor. Adjust vcore in bios till you get the same vcore you've noted down. When you've found the right offset, do another 10 rounds with IBT and finally one more 24 hours pass with prime (blend). If you crash up the vcore a little.

Good Luck!

[EDIT]
You could ditch the fixed ratio effort and go for offset immediately since your board doesn't allow LLC adjustments which would make your voltage stable during your experiments. Fixed is still a relatively stabler way to overclock though, so it's not a useless step.
Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 11/16/13 at 3:39pm
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Great response !

Thank for you help. As soon as get the results, I will let you know.

You suggested to turn off the integrated graphics on the motherboard. I do have a video card, but I was using an old square VGA monitor as a extended display for windows (I had to enabled my graphic option in the bios). Will having it enabled cause issues for my overclock?

Also, running at a core voltage of 1.200V+ @ 4.2 GHz can be normal? I guess maybe I just don't have a good chip tongue.gif
post #4 of 24
Yes, using the igpu will raise your temperatures. If you need it though leave it enabled. The voltage differences between ib processors are crazy. There are lucky people that do 4.5ghz with less than 1.2v and others that can't run it stable at this frequency no matter the voltage. For reference, my crappy 3570k needs 1.32v to be stable at that speed.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hi,

So I changed all the recommended settings.

As I had previously mentioned in my previous post. Unfortunately, the manufacturer will only allow weird increments to the Vcore setting. So I set it at -0.012V offset. In other words, I can't actually run at a fixed voltage i.e. 1.1V, I have to go with their settings.

Here is the burn test result

test2.jpg 263k .jpg file

No WHEA errors.

I moved one to the prime95 blend test.

At this point it has ran for about 4 hours. No issues.

My GF needs the computer for her online university class, so I'm going to turn it off... I will try to run for 24 hours straight next time.

Here are my current results

test4.jpg 629k .jpg file

**edit** in the screen capture CPU-Z is reading a core voltage of 1.128V, it does occasionally tick at that level, but really it sits at 1.116V

Ok. Question.

So if I crash in a longer prime95 (blend) test then up the voltage. Do I have to go through the IBT test again ?

If all goes well and it passes the 24h test. You said to run another type of prime 95 test and note the voltage ? For what reason exactly, to compare ?

Also, in my previous tests (before posting here), someone suggested the maximum heat test option for prime95 (that is actually what gave me a bluescreen first time around). But I have to say that I did not have all the same setting (i.e. the C1, C3, C6 states and upping the max amp / voltage values.

There is a max amp or voltage for the integrated graphics (which is on at the time btw). Can I leave that a default value ? It's default value is quite low compared to the others...
Edited by CCNAstudent - 11/18/13 at 2:07pm
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCNAstudent View Post

Hi,

So I changed all the recommended settings.

As I had previously mentioned in my previous post. Unfortunately, the manufacturer will only allow weird increments to the Vcore setting. So I set it at -0.012V offset.

Here is the burn test result

test2.jpg 263k .jpg file

No WHEA errors.

I moved one to the prime95 blend test.

At this point it has ran for about 4 hours. No issues.

My GF needs the computer for her online university class, so I'm going to turn it off... I will try to run for 24 hours straight next time.

Here are my current results

test4.jpg 629k .jpg file

Ok. Question.

So if I crash in a longer prime95 (blend) test then up the voltage. Do I have to go through the IBT test again ?

If all goes well and it passes the 24h test. You said to run another type of prime 95 test and note the voltage ?

Also, in my previous tests (before posting here), someone suggested the maximum heat test option for prime95 (that is actually what gave me a bluescreen first time around). But I have to say that I did not have all the same setting (i.e. the C1, C3, C6 states and upping the max amp / voltage values.

There is a max amp or voltage for the integrated graphics (which is on at the time btw). Can I leave that a default value ? It's default value is quite low compared to the others...

The only reason to run IBT is to do a quick test for stability when you try on a new frequency or with a lower voltage. If you pass the test the only thing that matters is prime which does allot more tests than ibt. If you up the volotage on the same frequency there is no need to rerun IBT. Your current voltage is good but your temps are a little high, i get lower temps at 4.4ghz with 1.28v on an Alpenfohn K2. You might want to try and re-seat your block. Clean your processor's heatspreader and your waterblock with alcohol and apply a better thermal paste (MX 2 does the job and it's cheap). Search the site for application methods, pea or cross will usually do the job.

The in place FFTs don't produce more heat than an up to date IBT, so if it gave you a blue screen it's not heat related. You could test it again with your current settings, but a proper blend test will do this anyway.

Don't change the igpu settings, there is no need.

An important thing i forgot to mention about prime. It needs more than 20 hours to try all FFTs when the test duration for each is set to 15 minutes. If you set it to 10 minutes you will pass all of them in ~12 hours. Fire up prime, select Blend, Custom and set the time to run each FFT to 10. You could also increase the memory to use if you want to test your ram as well, 80-90% of your ram size should do the trick, but you won't be able to use your pc for anything else during testing.

When you find your stable settings, we will reenable C states and turbo, we do this to find the lowest stable voltage needed by your cpu to run at the target frequency. You will probably have to alter the voltage settings in your bios, but we will know what voltage we should target when testing with prime in windows.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Alright.

So I will re-seat the CPU with new thermal paste before I go any further. Hopefully I can get this done on Friday. I will then try a 24 hour prime blend test and report back with results.

Note: When I idle I run at 1.176V sometimes ticking to 1.164 core voltage (higher than during the prime test). Weird. Same when I game with Battlefield 4.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCNAstudent View Post

Alright.

So I will re-seat the CPU with new thermal paste before I go any further. Hopefully I can get this done on Friday. I will then try a 24 hour prime blend test and report back with results.

Note: When I idle I run at 1.176V sometimes ticking to 1.164 core voltage (higher than during the prime test). Weird. Same when I game with Battlefield 4.

It's not weird, it's normal. It's called vdroop, when in full load the cpu is designed to drop the vcore a little in order to protect the cpu. You can negate this behavior with Load Line Calibration (LLC) settings which your motherboard unfortunately seems to lack. I am guessing you used the thermal patch that came on your water-block during installation? If not, what thermal paste did you use?
Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 11/18/13 at 5:46pm
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hahah I wish I knew ! The thing is a pre-built system from newegg.ca (it is a Cyberpower PC). It is about 2 years old now though, maybe it is time to re-apply it regardless. But yeah I'm not sure what they used.
Edited by CCNAstudent - 11/18/13 at 3:56pm
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
FYI - This is my temps and voltage at factory default settings.

Do you think the temps are on the high side ?

def.jpg 162k .jpg file

**update**

Had to order thermal paste online (just ordered some MX-4) as I couldn't get any decent stuff in town, pretty unbelievable eh ? Anyways I should receive it at the start of next week, and I will give you an update.
Edited by CCNAstudent - 11/21/13 at 2:24pm
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