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[Futurity] Device Uses Light To Split Water Into Clean Hydrogen - Page 3

post #21 of 29
that's the problem... Hydrogen is under loads more pressure than oil based fuels.. And the weight of an inch thick iron gas tank is not worth it.. iirc
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweezlednutball View Post

Its really sad how we cannot purchase hydrogen vehicles. The technology is existing and hardly different than a gasoline combustion engine on the road today. Isn't it just a specialized fuel tank and injection system?

http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/hre/about/
Very specialized:
  • Pressure vessel as a gas tank
  • Difficulty of efficiently producing H2
  • Storing H2 in large quantities
  • Fuel lines that can handle a high pressure fuel
  • Keeping the fuel lines from freezing
  • Keeping a leak out of the cabin in the case of a crash or otherwise
  • Keeping it from reacting with fuel system parts
  • Storing hydrogen at a density equal to that of gasoline (~36MJ/L) means very high pressures ( a back of the envelope calculation says 65K PSI @ 32F and 74K PSI @ 100F) (hydrogen has an energy density of 5.6 MJ/L @ 70MPa)
  • now imagine a fully fueled hydrogen car collides with a gasoline powered car and the gasoline powered car bursts into flames, heating the fuel tank of the hydrogen car, as car owners sometimes do, the pressure bleed off valve is ill maintained, does anyone else here see an explosion imminent?
  • Keeping your gas tank from exploding if punctured due to extremely high pressures

Edited by lin2dev - 11/17/13 at 4:37pm
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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lin2dev View Post

Very specialized:
  • Pressure vessel as a gas tank
  • Difficulty of efficiently producing H2
  • Storing H2 in large quantities
  • Fuel lines that can handle a high pressure fuel
  • Keeping the fuel lines from freezing
  • Keeping a leak out of the cabin in the case of a crash or otherwise
  • Keeping it from reacting with fuel system parts
  • Storing hydrogen at a density equal to that of gasoline (~36MJ/L) means very high pressures ( a back of the envelope calculation says 65K PSI @ 32F and 74K PSI @ 100F) (hydrogen has an energy density of 5.6 MJ/L @ 70MPa)
  • now imagine a fully fueled hydrogen car collides with a gasoline powered car and the gasoline powered car bursts into flames, heating the fuel tank of the hydrogen car, as car owners sometimes do, the pressure bleed off valve is ill maintained, does anyone else here see an explosion imminent?
  • Keeping your gas tank from exploding if punctured due to extremely high pressures
the

Electric batteries have poor efficiency, just considering the power they need to deliver to move themselves is horrible. I wont even mention production costs, material usage and costs AFTER the life of the battery.

Storing electricity in large volumes.

Hydrogen would be produced on site, whether its your garage or a filling station.

keeping fuel lines from freezing would be pretty easy here in Southern California.

The gas tank and hydrogen tank are separate. The hydrogen tank is 350 bar (roughly 5000 PSI not 74,000).

I don't imagine uneducated hypothetical scenarios from internet forums.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweezlednutball View Post

the

Electric batteries have poor efficiency, just considering the power they need to deliver to move themselves is horrible. I wont even mention production costs, material usage and costs AFTER the life of the battery.

Storing electricity in large volumes.

Hydrogen would be produced on site, whether its your garage or a filling station.

keeping fuel lines from freezing would be pretty easy here in Southern California.

The gas tank and hydrogen tank are separate. The hydrogen tank is 350 bar (roughly 5000 PSI not 74,000).

I don't imagine uneducated hypothetical scenarios from internet forums.

Now what about Canada or the northern US?
a hydrogen tank at 350bar would either give you a very short range or be extremely large, it would still also have to be somewhat thick

also, I'm not championing electric batteries over hydrogen. Where did I mention batteries or electricity in my post?
Edited by lin2dev - 11/17/13 at 5:02pm
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post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lin2dev View Post

Now what about Canada or the northern US?
a hydrogen tank at 350bar would either give you a very short range or be extremely large, it would still also have to be somewhat thick

also, I'm not championing electric batteries over hydrogen. Where did I mention batteries or electricity in my post?

Your missing my point. There should be more alternatives available other than electric since the alternatives exists. People are always so unhappy with the progress of hydrogen when there isn't anything available for people to invest in and when advancements are made everyone is just like "pffft, that's hardly any better". A great example is solar panels, they complete trash and now over a long time of micro improvements they are a viable solution and will continue to improve.

I feel like hydrogen is having a really hard time lifting off when people are just being plain old pussies and are scared of new technology, its history repeating itself over and over.
post #26 of 29
What the hell is this crap about hydrogen being dangerous as a fuel? There's a significant amount of propane powered vehicles on the road and they're not exploding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality View Post

Photolysis is A Thing.
Certainly, however this article repeatedly states using electricity with light merely being 'added'.
Quote:
This image shows two electrodes connected via an external voltage source splitting water into oxygen (O2) and hydrogen (H2). The illuminated silicon electrode (left) uses light energy to assist in the water-splitting process and is protected from the surrounding electrolyte by a 2-nm film of nickel. (Credit: Guosong Hong, Stanford University)
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweezlednutball View Post

Your missing my point. There should be more alternatives available other than electric since the alternatives exists. People are always so unhappy with the progress of hydrogen when there isn't anything available for people to invest in and when advancements are made everyone is just like "pffft, that's hardly any better". A great example is solar panels, they complete trash and now over a long time of micro improvements they are a viable solution and will continue to improve.

I feel like hydrogen is having a really hard time lifting off when people are just being plain old pussies and are scared of new technology, its history repeating itself over and over.

My point is hydrogen as a fuel is not as simple as you made it out to be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katawa View Post

What the hell is this crap about hydrogen being dangerous as a fuel? There's a significant amount of propane powered vehicles on the road and they're not exploding.
Certainly, however this article repeatedly states using electricity with light merely being 'added'.
Propane can be easily stored in liquid form at room temperature and has a higher energy density than hydrogen at the same pressure in gas form. Thus, hydrogen would require more extremes than propane.
Edited by lin2dev - 11/17/13 at 5:38pm
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post #28 of 29
Finding an efficient renewable energy source has been something that we have been searching for years for. They have made some great strides in solar energy and hydrogen over the last few years. Cold fusion is also a strong possibility in the future. Sadly, petroleum companies are in amongst the most powerful companies in the world, and they are doing everything they can to prevent alternate technology from being developed.

Rylant
post #29 of 29
Lol a old school project I did for science was a solar powered BBQ that ran off hydrogen.

The gas bottle was replaced with a big glass jar with water in it and electrolysis from the solor panel converted the water into hydrogen and O2.
Sadly the solar panel wasnt very efficient and could only produce enough gas to light up a single burner to slowly cook.

The efficiency could be increase by using salt in the water but then the gas coming off was harmful.
And being a student at that time $150 was all I could afford for a solar panel.


Maybe this tech could be used the same way to make a free gas powered BBQ of the future.
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