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60hz, 120hz and Motion Blur

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Hello once again!

I've been looking to upgrade my current monitor for a week now, still deciding which say I should go. I play mostly RPGs/MMOs but I notice quite a bit of blur when moving the camera/running (ie it's hard to read people's name while moving/ because it blurs, scenery textures turn into an undetailed blob, etc), but what I wonder is, is there a noticeable motion blur reduction/increase in clarity even if I don't reach 120fps? in MMO's especially, it's almost impossible to reach anywhere that number in towns/crowded places, with my average being 40~ FPS, but the bur still persists even at low FPS.

I've read a lot about Lightboost, but I've yet to read how it works at lower FPS, also it seems to decrease picture quality/colors quite a bit.

Right now I have a 60Hz IPS display, I love it's picture quality and I'm not about to go back to a TN screen, I have my sight on the new Eizo FG2421 display, which is a 120Hz VA panel with something similar to Nvidia's Lightboost, I'm waiting for more reviews to decide if It's worth it to pull the trigger or not.

Anyone can throw some light on me? Will I see an improvement? I'm quite interested in it. more se after reading http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/
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post #2 of 7
I would wait and see what is available with Gsync when that's released. Might provide a good combination of good looking panels with smoothness
Edited by M00NIE - 11/17/13 at 11:03am
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post #3 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian View Post

I've been looking to upgrade my current monitor for a week now, still deciding which say I should go. I play mostly RPGs/MMOs but I notice quite a bit of blur when moving the camera/running (ie it's hard to read people's name while moving/ because it blurs, scenery textures turn into an undetailed blob, etc), but what I wonder is, is there a noticeable motion blur reduction/increase in clarity even if I don't reach 120fps?
Generally:
60fps@120Hz on LCD often looks exactly the same as 60fps@60Hz.
Take a look at the animations at www.testufo.com.
Quote:
in MMO's especially, it's almost impossible to reach anywhere that number in towns/crowded places, with my average being 40~ FPS, but the bur still persists even at low FPS.
When GPU effects are off, and motion is synchronized in some way to the refresh rate, motion blur is roughly proportional to framerate on flickerfree displays. 30fps has twice the blur of 60fps, and 60fps has twice the blur of 120fps. Things are different when displays are flickering/strobed (CRT, plasma, LightBoost, EIZO Turbo240, etc) since the flickering/strobing lowers persistence (example: www.testufo.com/blackframes )
Quote:
I've read a lot about Lightboost, but I've yet to read how it works at lower FPS, also it seems to decrease picture quality/colors quite a bit.
Factor these in:
-- LightBoost works best at framerates matching refresh rates. It doesn't make low framerates look good, and may actually slightly worsen it.
-- There's also other new strobe backlights similar to LightBoost, that do not degrade color quality. G-SYNC also has a strobed mode coming up, too.
-- G-SYNC is another option. It makes lower framerates better looking (albiet not eliminating motion blur the way strobing does). G-SYNC monitors also have an optional strobing mode.
Quote:
Right now I have a 60Hz IPS display, I love it's picture quality and I'm not about to go back to a TN screen, I have my sight on the new Eizo FG2421 display, which is a 120Hz VA panel with something similar to Nvidia's Lightboost, I'm waiting for more reviews to decide if It's worth it to pull the trigger or not.

Anyone can throw some light on me? Will I see an improvement? I'm quite interested in it. more se after reading http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/
You will want to upgrade your GPU to get triple digit framerates. At least it's only a 3x framerate improvement you need in order to get that ~10x motion clarity improvement. It looks far more colorful than a LightBoost monitor, if you are sensitive to color, so it can be worth the GPU upgrade in addition.
post #4 of 7
Thread Starter 
Well, It's quite disheartening reading that there's no way of getting rid of motion blur at lower FPS due to how LCDs work, didn't know FPS where correlated to the amount of motion blur, so getting a faster LCD wouldn't do anything if I don't up my FPS.

I guess I'll better save up while I wait for news on G-Sync. Thanks mdrejhon, that saved from buying something and be severely disappointed.
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post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian View Post

Well, It's quite disheartening reading that there's no way of getting rid of motion blur at lower FPS due to how LCDs work, didn't know FPS where correlated to the amount of motion blur, so getting a faster LCD wouldn't do anything if I don't up my FPS.
That's for all flicker free displays, not just LCD's (LCD's in non-strobe mode, AMOLED's that aren't strobed, LCOS displays, etc). A great demonstration example of the motion blur that exists on all flickerfree displays (even if instant pixel transition) -- www.testufo.com/eyetracking

Most strobe backlights are limited to high frequencies to avoid flicker. It's like owning a CRT that's limited to working at 120Hz or 100Hz.
Strobe backlights at 60Hz aren't common (except Sony's interpolation-free low-latency Motionflow Impulse). 60Hz strobe backlights flicker quite a lot, like a 60Hz CRT (and possibly even worse flicker than a 60Hz CRT, due to lack of "phosphor decay").

This doesn't stop manufacturers from releasing a strobe backlight at lower refresh rates. You only need framerate=Hz when using flicker displays -- including CRT, plasma, LightBoost. Strobe backlights aren't currently available at lower strobe rates (yet). I believe G-SYNC will become available at lower strobe rates, so keep tuned on that. If strobe backlights were available at 60Hz, then that would solve your issue as you would then only need 60fps@60Hz.
Quote:
I guess I'll better save up while I wait for news on G-Sync. Thanks mdrejhon, that saved from buying something and be severely disappointed.
There will be improvement due to the LCD's faster response, as there will be slightly less motion blur at all refresh rates. But 40fps won't show really noticeable motion blur improvement, if your current monitor is already 5ms or less. Although I really like the FG2421, if you want a cheap way to eliminate motion blur, why not spend the funds on extra GPU's in the meantime? The $600 saved buys you a good graphics card, or even both ($300 graphics card to go SLI/CrossFire on your existing graphics card -- and $300 120Hz LightBoost monitor).

In the meantime, if you already have a 120Hz monitor, view www.testufo.com (in non-LightBoost mode) to understand the relationship between motion blur and frame rate.
Also, in G-SYNC variable refresh rate mode (not strobed mode), G-SYNC will still have motion blur, but will have a variable amount of motion blur that gradually declines as you go to higher frame rates. It's much better looking than having stutters. G-SYNC makes 40fps smoother looking because it's running 40fps@40Hz as the refresh rate dynamically matches frame rate. This looks much better, and clearer, than 40fps@60Hz, since that's not synchronized. In addition, you will have the choice of both a strobe mode and variable refresh rate mode in G-SYNC monitors, so you can use strobe mode for your high-framerate games, and variable refresh rate mode.

Now, that said, if you are willing to upgrade your GPU to achieve triple digit frame rates, it's hard to beat the (overall) color quality of an Eizo FG2421. Less compromises than TN, while having strobing. IPS, TN, and VA have various different kinds of flaws (with VA having weird gamma issues during dark greys, and TN having bad color shift issues, and IPS glow issues, etc.).
post #6 of 7
Thread Starter 
That's... quite informative, heh.

Sadly I don't have or even owned a 120 Hz display, but I can clearly see that 30fps@60Hz is blurrier than 60fps@60Hz, so I guess it's the same with 60fps@120Hz and 120fps@120Hz.

While G-Sync does sound nice, it doesn't have variable refresh rate and strobed backlight at the same time, naturally, a strobed backlight at low refresh rate would have a noticeable flicker that would get annoying very quickly, so I'm not betting on that, and I would be completely tied to Nvidia, which I'm not too keen about either

It does seem that the best option to get rid of blur would be upgrading my GPU so I can reach 100+ fps and get a strobed backlight display.
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post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian View Post

Sadly I don't have or even owned a 120 Hz display, but I can clearly see that 30fps@60Hz is blurrier than 60fps@60Hz, so I guess it's the same with 60fps@120Hz and 120fps@120Hz.
That's right.
Quote:
While G-Sync does sound nice, it doesn't have variable refresh rate and strobed backlight at the same time, naturally, a strobed backlight at low refresh rate would have a noticeable flicker that would get annoying very quickly, so I'm not betting on that, and I would be completely tied to Nvidia, which I'm not too keen about either
You would be able to select between either:
G-SYNC -- better for variable frame rates, eliminates stutters/tearing
Strobed -- better for full maximum frame rate, eliminates motion blur
Quote:
It does seem that the best option to get rid of blur would be upgrading my GPU so I can reach 100+ fps and get a strobed backlight display.
Even upgrading your GPU to reach 60fps will reduce perceived motion blur further even on your existing monitor. If you're only doing 40fps today, that's probably your best bet today.
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