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Benefit of a FirePro W7000 over Duel 7970?

post #1 of 11
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So, I do a fair amount of freelance video editing and graphic design, and was wondering if a FirePro W7000 would do or will 2 x 7970 suffice. My previous build i had 2 x 6970's in CF that would render a 7-10 minute video @1080 in about 3 minutes via AAECS5 and SVP10. I also play Minecraft, and from my understanding FirePros don't "game" very well. Any suggestions or other things to point out that I may be overlooking are welcome.
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE 2 NV View Post

So, I do a fair amount of freelance video editing and graphic design, and was wondering if a FirePro W7000 would do or will 2 x 7970 suffice. My previous build i had 2 x 6970's in CF that would render a 7-10 minute video @1080 in about 3 minutes via AAECS5 and SVP10.

If you don't game much, the W7000 would probably be better; the enhanced driver support for professional software is very nice in workstation environments. Note, however, that I'm not very familiar with the Firepro line, so I'll defer to the more experienced users on this.
Quote:
I also play Minecraft, and from my understanding FirePros don't "game" very well.

Firepros can play games just as well as their Radeon counterparts for the most part; they'll run hotter and they don't get driver updates nearly as often, but for Minecraft, neither of those should really be a factor. The W7000 uses a Pitcairn XT GPU, so its gaming performance should be similar to a 7870.
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post #3 of 11
FirePros can game just fine, it's Quadros that suck at it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/workstation-graphics-card-gaming,3425.html


Anyway, the W7000 is a 4GB 7870, more or less, with almost all the gaming power, but has the added advantage of ECC VRAM, full double precision performance, and backed directly by AMD. Oh and 4x full size DP as the adapters and it's single-slot.

The above linked review covers it's gaming performance, and this one here can compare workstation performance:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493.html

FirePro cards tend to get a nice boost in workstation applications, but your specific program set isn't tested, sorry.
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post #4 of 11
Firepro W7000 games ok (same as HD7870/R9-270X at 950Mhz or approximately the new R9 270 with the same TDP envelope).
(see the review linked by KyadCK, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/workstation-graphics-card-gaming,3425.html)

They just come with crap coolers. wink.gif

You don't need a Firepro for Photoshop http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/.

Adobe After Effects
- cuda is required for ray tracing

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2013/09/gpu-changes-for-cuda-and-opengl-in-after-effects-cc-12-1.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2012/05/gpu-cuda-opengl-features-in-after-effects-cs6.html
http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/system-requirements-effects.html#main_After_Effects_CS6_system_requirements

Sony Vegas Pro doesn't really have additional benefits from Firepro as to render speed if it's anything like Premiere Pro (https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5073)

KyadCK is slightly incorrect about double precision , 2.4 TFLOPs single precision and 152 GFLOPs double precision floating point performance

http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/ati-firepro-3d/w7000/Pages/w7000.aspx#3

That's about equal to Pitcairn Radeons , actually less (due to lowered clockrate). The R9 270 is 925 Mhz Boost and packs 148 GFlops double precision ; R9 270X packs 160Gflops at stock 1Ghz base clock

For easy math: 925/950 * 152Gflops = 148 , spot on with R9 270 numbers.
For easy math: 1000/950 * 152Gflops = 160 Gflops , spot on with R9 270X & HD7870
Edited by AlphaC - 11/18/13 at 3:39pm
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post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Firepro W7000 games ok (same as HD7870/R9-270X at 950Mhz or approximately the new R9 270 with the same TDP envelope).
(see the review linked by KyadCK, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/workstation-graphics-card-gaming,3425.html)

They just come with crap coolers. wink.gif

You don't need a Firepro for Photoshop http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/.

Adobe After Effects
- cuda is required for ray tracing

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2013/09/gpu-changes-for-cuda-and-opengl-in-after-effects-cc-12-1.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2012/05/gpu-cuda-opengl-features-in-after-effects-cs6.html
http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/system-requirements-effects.html#main_After_Effects_CS6_system_requirements

Sony Vegas Pro doesn't really have additional benefits from Firepro as to render speed if it's anything like Premiere Pro (https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5073)

KyadCK is slightly incorrect about double precision , 2.4 TFLOPs single precision and 152 GFLOPs double precision floating point performance

http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/ati-firepro-3d/w7000/Pages/w7000.aspx#3

That's about equal to Pitcairn Radeons , actually less (due to lowered clockrate). The R9 270 is 925 Mhz Boost and packs 148 GFlops double precision ; R9 270X packs 160Gflops at stock 1Ghz base clock

For easy math: 925/950 * 152Gflops = 148 , spot on with R9 270 numbers.
For easy math: 1000/950 * 152Gflops = 160 Gflops , spot on with R9 270X & HD7870

You assume the Radeons are allowed to use all the double precision. "Has" and "Can use" are different things.
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post #6 of 11
They can use it. Unlike the GK110 disabling of double precision for all SKUs except for TITAN (a single GK110 SMX has: 192 single‐precision CUDA cores, 64 double‐precision units, 32 special function units (SFU), and 32 load/store units (LD/ST))...

The main reason is because GCN uses two 32-bit to combine to be 64-bit (double precision) , Nvidia's Kepler uses separate double precision units for 64-bit calcs.

From GCN whitepaper: "VGPRs – Every work-item has access to some number of VGPRs, up to a
maximum of 256. VGPRs are 32-bits wide and are used by the vector ALU and
vector memory systems. Double-precision operations use two adjacent VGPRs
to form a 64-bit value." http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/12/AMD_Southern_Islands_Instruction_Set_Architecture.pdf

VGPR = Vector General-Purpose Registers

"Double precision and 32-bit integer instructions run at a reduced rate within a SIMD. The GCN Architecture is flexible and double precision performance varies
from 1/2 to 1/16 of single precision performance, increasing the latency accordingly. The double precision and 32-bit integer performance can be configured for
a specific GCN implementation, based on the target application." www.amd.com/us/Documents/GCN_Architecture_whitepaper.pdf‎


Just look at Milkyway@Home & Folding@Home.




http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-25.html

R9 270 scored 2.8 on F@h explicit double precision , in line with the W7000
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/amd-radeon-r9-270-im-test/5/#gpu-computing-fahbench

Another little known fact is Radeons possess 10-bit color. They just are software locked by Radeon drivers , it's not even a hardware limitation.

P.S. , OP look at Vegas render time : there's approximately ~13% difference between a Pitcairn (Hd7870/r9 270/Firepro W7000) and a Tahiti Pro (Hd7950) / Tahiti XT (HD7970GE / HD7970 / R9-280X / Firepro W9000)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7503/the-amd-radeon-r9-270x-270-review-feat-asus-his/15
Edited by AlphaC - 11/18/13 at 4:58pm
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post #7 of 11
As far as I know, there aren't any driver enhancements for workstation cards with editing software in mind. The driver support and certification mostly applies to 3D cgi applications. I recently switched from an AMD FirePro V7900 (the W7000's predecessor) and while it was good, the GTX 780 I've replaced it with, although 'unsupported' actually does a better job.

GTX cards have double precision toned down a lot, but I don't believe that is used in video editing suites. Premiere and After Effects have some GPU enhanced features, but they work just as well on my GTX over the V7900.

I'd save some money if I were you and go with a consumer based Radeon or GTX. The support for pro cards is blown out of proportion as far as I'm concerned, you pay a lot more for what is essentially an older card, with a rubbish heat-sink.
    
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post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for your insight. Though a W9000 would be nice, I don't have $3000 in a mattress I can just blow for it. Sounds like I'll be going with duel 7970's. I say this because I was very satisfied with the rendering power my 6970's gave me. It's just, I've never used a "workstation" GPU before and was thinking about giving it a try. Again, Thank You All!!
post #9 of 11
I'm going through this very decision making process my self. I went as far as ordering a 7990 for like $550 bucks from NEwEgg. I then researched more and for my need, AutoDesk Softwares likr AutoCAD MEP and Revit the GTX cards fared very well for professional softwares.

I'm going to send the 7990 back and get a single GTX 770 4gb for much less.

There are some articles around discussing and testing consumer grade cards on CAD programs. It seems that the Titan would be the best. Not the GTX 780ti but the GTX Titan. Thats $1000 and tests faster than even the highest end "professional" card at about $5000! Apparently it may not be as precise in rendering as the other cards but, I don't need that kind of precision. So it seems the sweet spot here would be the GTX 770 4GB. I found one on NE for $369 after rebate. So, the reason I come to the gtx 770 is that it is using the same GPU as the GTX 680, which came in not to too far below the Titan in one of the tests I saw. I opted away from the new GTX 780 and GTX 780ti because another test claimed that the the titan and the gtx 680 performed better in the CAD application.

In the end, the GTX 770 is an improved upon GTX 680 and I figure I'll go for the 4gb version to future proof it a bit and it really isn't that much more. I think the best price I could find on the 2GB version is $329.

So, my impatience in jumping on the beastly 7990 nearly cost me $200 I did not need to spend on a card that, was an amazing deal as a gaming card, didn't fulfill my essential needs for 3D modelling as well as the lesser expensive card.

Thanks for all the comments and advise! I'll return the 7990 to newegg and wait for the refund and see how we're doing on prices then. Of course, I'll be very close to black Friday at that point and may wait and see what prices that would bring.

If you are thinking of cross-firing 2 7970s maybe this would be a better option for you too.

I see NewEgg is out of stock on the $579 right now, but, I have one the way to my house that i plan to refuse shipping on to go back to them.

Maybe you could snag it. I think there is still a $599 one available at Newegg though.
post #10 of 11
I AM NOT A GAMER (IANAG? ;-). Overclocking here is a means to an end. However, I do have an AMD W7000 and I've beat up on it more than a bit just to see about the Workstation isn't for gaming "myth." And it's a myth. Arma 3, every setting max'ed with my screen size 2560x1600, still all else max'ed, gives 18 FPS. Any reasonable size is off the top end. I asked around and this was lent as a test of the card. So, if it can't game, it sure does a miserable job of hiding it. The fact that it is also single slot so I can stuff in 3 more, doesn't waste a crapload of power doing the job, and I almost forgot, happily sits back and doesn't draw squat if I'm not using it's computing power are all pluses.

As for what I got it for? Half of the equation is that I work in a wide range of sciences and engineering disciplines and this card suits the requirements, especially since I don't have the kind of money for a W9000 or nVidia equivalent. I should point out that this is the first non-nVidia card I've ever bought and I've bought a lot of them since nVidia was a tadpole. The other half has to do with a particular project and has nothing to do with anything here, yet.

I do see you've decided the other way. No big. Just thought I'd mention a counter-example to the can't game yada-yada.
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