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What is the 9570/9590? - Page 6  

post #51 of 227
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Quote:
You know what though, the 9370 isn't looking that bad of a buy anymore. Newegg has it for 289 and amd includes a modified Astek 920 liquid cooler. It's more or less on par with an H80i, so if you factor in that, an 8350+h80i actually costs MORE than a 9370/wc kit!

Are you serious? The i7 crushes the 8350 in every single aspect by a factor of almost 3x, especially considering it can run PCI-E 3.0, and has an IMC easily capable of 3ghz - that's literally a larger difference than DDR2 and DDR3, and DDR3 and DDR4 (2133mhz) will be, seriously, the i7 basically is like on DDR4 compared to the 8350's DDR3, and with new hynix cfr's and sammies the same price as budget ram you can do 3ghz easily nowadays on ram if you got a decent IMC, which AMD does not.

The whole point of the 8xxx (and i guess 9xxx) is to compete with the i5 - with 8 threads, it beats the i5 in heavily mulithreaded applications while it's supposed to cost less than it and be almost as good as the i7. If the 8xxx/9xxx is more expensive than the i7, it defeats the whole purpose of the 8xxx/9xxx! The i7 is regarded and known by everyone to be far better than the 8350, it's simply too expensive to be useful. Not to mention useless, like the 8350, for gaming.

I don't get why you would say the 9370 'doesnt look like that bad of a buy'. Didn't we just establish it's literally just an 8320 marketed to stupid people?!?! I mean the 9370 isn't even considerable, it's 4.7ghz@1.55v! Jesus, any 8320 can do that! It's not even well binned! At least the 9590 is binned enough to hit the max overclock!!

AND HOLY CRAP I JUST LEARNED THAT TURBO MODE ISN'T AN OVERCLOCK, IT'S THE SAME THING AS INTELS TURBO!!!

That literally means the 9590 is not even a 5ghz chip! It's just a plain 8320 that only does 5ghz@4 cores! Holy cow that's so awful! lachen.giflachen.giflachen.gif

I mean dude, we just established in this thread that the 9xxx series is a total rip-off, they are just plain 8xxx cores that come pre-overclocked, which they can already do, and slapped with a CoOL ELiTE!! label. It's for suckers!
Quote:
Newegg has it for 289 and amd includes a modified Astek 920 liquid cooler. It's more or less on par with an H80i, so if you factor in that, an 8350+h80i actually costs MORE than a 9370/wc kit!

...wut? No... no it's not. H80i is a modern Coolit ECO II. The Antec Kuhler 920 is one of the oldest closet loops ever, and it's the worst 120x50mm rad closed loop of all. It's an awful cooler. You're telling me that you think having a modern CPU packaged with a mid-high range close loop that's 3 years old is a good deal? Yea, just give me some gen1 sandforce SSDs and a GTX 480 while we're at it!

And.. I really dont' want to be pigeonholed with a cooler. No thanks, I really don't think being overcharged with a bundled 920 is a good deal. I hate to break it to you, but it's not a 'free' 920, they jacked up the margin on it. And you do realize that an antec kuhler 920 is not a water cooling kit right? It's a closed loop, which means it's actually a lot more in common with regular air heatsinks than a water cooling loop. By a loooong margin. The Antec Kuhler 920's performance is on par with an NH-D14, which is the 2nd worst dual-tower air heatsink (like the 920, it's outdated and old, replaced by superior heatsinks like the Phanteks, Silver Arrow, and Logisys Assassin). Why would you buy a $300 CPU to put a $40 heatsink on it, no thanks!

I don't know where you are checking prices, but the 9370 is way jacked up. 8350 for $199 (lol), + $54 for a 240mm closed loop thermaltake extreme 2.0, which is far better than a 120mm rad closed loop. You can also find h100s regularly for ~$50-60 (used, refurb/sale on newegg, ebay, etc). That's a good deal cheaper for a much stronger cooler. Or, just get an NH-D14 for $40 off ebay, and for $240 you got similar cooling. You could find the LQ-315 or LQ-320 on sale for ~$30-40 regularly too, just get that, for a modern asetek gen4.
Quote:
also, out of curiosity Belial, which phenom II chip did you have? why couldn't it stream 1080p? (your GPU should have more to do with that than your CPU i would think)

I had a C2 revision x4. H264 is all CPU work, not GPU. I'm not sure why you think GPU would do it, CPU always does H264 (xsplit, obs, FMLE, etc).
Quote:
and afaik, the 9xxx chips are binned better than the 8xxx chips, even if they are over-volted/overclocked

Why do you say that? I have seen zero evidence to support that. I'm not sure why people just assume it's better binned when results show otherwise. I mean you understand if it's 'over-volted' that defeats the purpose of binning right? It's not exactly a golden chip if it takes 1.55v for 5ghz. A worthwhile binning would be like 1.4v.
Quote:
My crippled 940BE Deneb can stream 1080p fine, and my gf's Kuma 7750 (with and HD7750 card) also streams 1080p fine.

Well it completely depends on your bitrate, with enough bandwidth you could stream 1080 on a pentium4 (that'd be a lot, but hey google fiber...). With an good upload of 2000mb/s, there was no way you could stream 1080@60fps on a Phenom IIx4... Not even an 8350 can handle that. You might be talking about 1080@30fps, which is considered by most to look worse than 720@60fps.

I mean you'd have to give more details, but no way could handle more than 720@45fps, 2000/2000, h264, while playing SC2.
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post #52 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

You know what though, the 9370 isn't looking that bad of a buy anymore. Newegg has it for 289 and amd includes a modified Astek 920 liquid cooler. It's more or less on par with an H80i, so if you factor in that, an 8350+h80i actually costs MORE than a 9370/wc kit!

and afaik, the 9xxx chips are binned better than the 8xxx chips, even if they are over-volted/overclocked

also, out of curiosity Belial, which phenom II chip did you have? why couldn't it stream 1080p? (your GPU should have more to do with that than your CPU i would think)

My crippled 940BE Deneb can stream 1080p fine, and my gf's Kuma 7750 (with and HD7750 card) also streams 1080p fine.


It is looking good and since it is a high binned chip it is attractive from that point too. I did not do well in the silicon lottery and that one will get me where I want to go.


More fly over country.................
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post #53 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post



AND HOLY CRAP I JUST LEARNED THAT TURBO MODE ISN'T AN OVERCLOCK, IT'S THE SAME THING AS INTELS TURBO!!!

That literally means the 9590 is not even a 5ghz chip! It's just a plain 8320 that only does 5ghz@4 cores! Holy cow that's so awful! lachen.giflachen.giflachen.gif

I mean dude, we just established in this thread that the 9xxx series is a total rip-off, they are just plain 8xxx cores that come pre-overclocked, which they can already do, and slapped with a CoOL ELiTE!! label. It's for suckers!
.

Whats so funny is that this is news to you, Even the AMD fans saw through this from day one as we knew what the 8300 chips could do. It was called a marketing gimmic by everyone on both sides of the fence and was a rather obvious attempt at the feather in the cap, so to speak, for being the first commercially available out of the box 5ghz processor.
   
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post #54 of 227
I just want to say:
Quote:
it may be wise to buy an 8 core chip for gaming becase allthe new consoles are 8 core x86 now.

This makes some logical sense - If an FX 8-threaded CPU was FASTER than an i7, assuming all threads are loaded.

It's not though, it falls between i5 and i7 IF ALL THREADS ARE UTILIZED, unarguably. That's why the pricing is as such: £120 fx-8 core, £170 i5, £240-270 i7.

If there are 8 threads, i7 wins a little in almost every task.

If there are less than 8 threads, the margins of intel winning get bigger and bigger - to the point where they have a >1.5x lead max oc vs max oc in stuff like sc2 which puts almost all of its CPU load on a single thread, no problem.

If a game utilizes 1 thread, 4670k wins. If a game utilizes four, five or six threads, 4670k wins. If a game utilizes 7-8 threads, FX may overtake i5 (current gens) but won't catch up to i7 - as the game being multithreaded enough to put the FX CPU on par, by nature, makes hyperthreading offer a large performance benefit to the i7 over i5.


Therefore, anyone on a tight budget will get an fx 8-core if they're not running stuff that relies on singlethreaded performance (where fx fails miserably) or i5 if they are.

If they want a better CPU, they'll upgrade past fx/i5 to i7, or go for intel's enthusiast platform, where you can keep all (i7) or most (enthusiast platform) of the singlethreaded performance while expanding multithreaded ahead of FX. It's a budget choice, nothing more - There's the better CPU's, and the cheaper ones. I value CPU performance and am somewhat reliant on singlethreaded, which means that marketed towards me, Intel has a monopoly since Sandy Bridge - hoping that will change soon so they stop doing stupid stupid things with their cpu's
Edited by Cyro999 - 11/23/13 at 9:17am
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post #55 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I just want to say:
This makes some logical sense - If an FX 8-threaded CPU was FASTER than an i7, assuming all threads are loaded.

It's not though, it falls between i5 and i7 IF ALL THREADS ARE UTILIZED, unarguably. That's why the pricing is as such: £120 fx-8 core, £170 i5, £240-270 i7.

If there are 8 threads, i7 wins a little in almost every task.

If there are less than 8 threads, the margins of intel winning get bigger and bigger - to the point where they have a >1.5x lead max oc vs max oc in stuff like sc2 which puts almost all of its CPU load on a single thread, no problem.

If a game utilizes 1 thread, 4670k wins. If a game utilizes four, five or six threads, 4670k wins. If a game utilizes 7-8 threads, FX may overtake i5 (current gens) but won't catch up to i7 - as the game being multithreaded enough to put the FX CPU on par, by nature, makes hyperthreading offer a large performance benefit to the i7 over i5

Good summary, covers a lot of the reasons I went ahead and jumped ship on AMD.
   
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post #56 of 227
Thread Starter 
Quote:
It is looking good and since it is a high binned chip it is attractive from that point too. I did not do well in the silicon lottery and that one will get me where I want to go.


More fly over country.................

How is it 'looking good'? We've established it's a rip-off 8320, and there has been zero evidence to show it's a binned chip. I don't even know why you say it's a binned chip, since it can't do a high overclock, only can do 5ghz when only 4 cores are working. That's awful. You could probably do that with any 8320 at 1.55v...

And how is it priced attractive? The i7-4770k is 2-3x stronger than the 8xxx/9xxx in every applicaton, has pci-e 3.0, a much stronger IMC. I've repeated multiple evidence of this, and you've yet to provide any evidence backing up any of your one-liners.
Quote:
Whats so funny is that this is news to you, Even the AMD fans saw through this from day one as we knew what the 8300 chips could do. It was called a marketing gimmic by everyone on both sides of the fence and was a rather obvious attempt at the feather in the cap, so to speak, for being the first commercially available out of the box 5ghz processor.

Did they? it seems more like people here like the 9xxx rather than dislike it, and more people here are just as confused as me on the features of the 9xxx than actually understand it.
Quote:
It's not though, it falls between i5 and i7 IF ALL THREADS ARE UTILIZED, unarguably. That's why the pricing is as such: £120 fx-8 core, £170 i5, £240-270 i7.

If there are 8 threads, i7 wins a little in almost every task.

But it's not priced like that, the 8350 is $199, the i5 is cheaper, the i7 is same price on sale. lachen.gif
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post #57 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultisym View Post

The 8350 OCs better than the 8320, period. Ive had a couple samples of each and ran the 8350 for quite some time. It would blow right past 5 ghz. T

I've tried three 8350's and the highest clock was 4800, and yes i was doing everything well. rolleyes.gif
So please dont act like any 8350 could reach 5+ because they can't.
post #58 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post

I've tried three 8350's and the highest clock was 4800, and yes i was doing everything well. rolleyes.gif
So please dont act like any 8350 could reach 5+ because they can't.

You have the worst luck of anyone ive ever come across then. rolleyes.gif Or something else.
   
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post #59 of 227
done with aircooling wink.gif

kMzVEaG.jpg
post #60 of 227
eek.gif 7.274ghz! cool.gif



More fly over country..............
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