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Will these 4 (edit: 5) fans create enough airflow?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I'd like to hear some opinions on this:

I've come acrross a used Nexus prominent R case which i'm about to buy. I've been thinking to move my components to a newer case with cable management features and better airflow for a long time.
Originally the case has 2 x nexus real silent fans @ 1000 rpm, these won't do the job imo but aren't included in this deal anyway.

I am using an older model chieftec case at the moment with 3x 80mm fans (1 of them ghetto modded in the 5.25 bays) intake and 2x 80mm fans + through PSU outtake. But i'm not completely satisfied with the airflow (it's not bad after the ghetto mod (extra 80mm intake fan)) and the noise levels while idle. Had this case at the time and was good for saving some cash on the build back then.

I've been doing some research on decent fans which aren't so loud with a decent build quality and end up ordering:
2 x Noiseblocker 120 mm Fan BlackSilentPro PLPS pwm fan (600-1500 rpm)
40-100 m3/h (12V)
23.5 - 58.86 CFM
2x Noiseblocker 140 mm Fan BlackSilent XK2 (1100 rpm) 3 pin connector
50.07 CFM

2 things i'd like some opinions about:
Is it safe to connect those two 140mm fans on 1 mobo connector with a simple splitter? They should have a reasonable low startup voltage from what i've read.
edit: Those two 140 mm fans are rated 1.2W
Max power on cpu fan connector is 1A (12W) but they don't mention the max power of Chassis fan connector in the manual (asus P8P67 pro). I've seen some other threads on other sites were they state thats 2 or maybe even 3 fans shouldn't be a problem.

Will these 4 fans create enough airflow for my rig: i5 2500k (oc: 4.4Ghz @ 1.26V at the moment) and asus GTX670 with modded bios (sig rig). I think so but can I mount extra fans in the nexus case if needed.

extra info:
case: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Nexus-Prominent-R-Case-Review/1431/1
http://www.quietpc.com/nx-prominentr
120mm fan: http://www.xoxide.com/noiseblocker-nbblacksilentproplps-120x25ultraquiet-pwmfan600-1500.html
http://www.blacknoise.com/en/products/it/10/Noiseblocker-NB_BlackSilent_Pro_120mm
140mm fan: http://www.svc.com/nb-xk2.html
http://dvtests.com/?p=11310

planning to mount the 2 x 120mm fans into 1 x front and 1x rear and 2 x 140mm fans into 1x bottom and 1 x top
Edited by TiezZ BE - 11/18/13 at 10:27am
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post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiezZ BE View Post

2 things i'd like some opinions about:
Is it safe to connect those two 140mm fans on 1 mobo connector with a simple splitter? They should have a reasonable low startup voltage from what i've read.

Will these 4 fans create enough airflow for my rig: i5 2500k (oc: 4.4Ghz @ 1.26V at the moment) and asus GTX670 with modded bios (sig rig). I think so but can I mount extra fans in the nexus case if needed.

I would be careful about doubling up on connecting multiple fans to a motherboard headder. There is a finite amount of power coming from those. Just err on the side of caution and use molex adapter. http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-12-311-003
Otherwise you're looking at finding out the max power output of the headders and the max voltage draw of the fans, even then do you want the headder to be maxed all the time etc...

As for the air flow in your case, you need to find out the CFM (cubic feet per minute) of air that they push then follow the rule of thumb which is more intake than outtake (this will help keep dust down). There is a specific ratio of CFM in vs out, I just cant remember the number. Also, are you using the stock CPU cooler or an aftermarket one? The stock coolers are designed to blow incidental air down onto the VRM. If you are watercooling your CPU or using one of those tower coolers, you may see higher than normal temps on your motherboard and may need to direct some air flow towards the VRM.
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post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I would be careful about doubling up on connecting multiple fans to a motherboard headder. There is a finite amount of power coming from those. Just err on the side of caution and use molex adapter. http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-12-311-003
Otherwise you're looking at finding out the max power output of the headders and the max voltage draw of the fans, even then do you want the headder to be maxed all the time etc...
As for the air flow in your case, you need to find out the CFM (cubic feet per minute) of air that they push then follow the rule of thumb which is more intake than outtake (this will help keep dust down). There is a specific ratio of CFM in vs out, I just cant remember the number. Also, are you using the stock CPU cooler or an aftermarket one? The stock coolers are designed to blow incidental air down onto the VRM. If you are watercooling your CPU or using one of those tower coolers, you may see higher than normal temps on your motherboard and may need to direct some air flow towards the VRM.

With the setup i had in mind the CFM in versus out is going to be about equal. From what i've read it isn't 'obligated' to have > static pressure in the case itself (CFM in being higher then CFM out).

i've read that lower then static pressure could result in more dust in the case. But in front of al intakes are fan filters

I'd be crazy to run 4.4Ghz with a 2500k on a stock cooler, i've got a xigmatek gaia on my cpu (sig rig). biggrin.gif
Edited by TiezZ BE - 11/18/13 at 8:57am
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post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiezZ BE View Post

With the setup i had in mind the CFM in versus out is going to be about equal. From what i've read it isn't 'obligated' to have > static pressure in the case itself (CFM in being higher then CFM out).

i've read that lower then static pressure could result in more dust in the case. But in front of al intakes are fan filters

I'd be crazy to run 4.4Ghz with a 2500k on a stock cooler, i've got a xigmatek gaia on my cpu (sig rig). biggrin.gif

All I can say is what I've read and heard on this site, you want static pressure inside the case to keep dust down. That means more in than out. Filters help but only so much.

That being said about your cooler, if you are seeing higher than normal temperatures on the motherboard, consider suplimental cooling.
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post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

All I can say is what I've read and heard on this site, you want static pressure inside the case to keep dust down. That means more in than out. Filters help but only so much.

That being said about your cooler, if you are seeing higher than normal temperatures on the motherboard, consider suplimental cooling.

It's always an option to install just 1 low speed (low noise) extra 120mm intake fan in the front behind the HDD to get that extra bit of CFM in and cool down the HDD as an extra.
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post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiezZ BE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardonthejob View Post

All I can say is what I've read and heard on this site, you want static pressure inside the case to keep dust down. That means more in than out. Filters help but only so much.

That being said about your cooler, if you are seeing higher than normal temperatures on the motherboard, consider suplimental cooling.

It's always an option to install just 1 low speed (low noise) extra 120mm intake fan in the front behind the HDD to get that extra bit of CFM in and cool down the HDD as an extra.
You will need at least 3:2 if not 2:1 ratio of intake cfm to exhaust cfm using the supplied specs.
Some reasons;
* 1/ there is more resistance (static pressure) to intake while exhaust has more pressure from inside of case than outside,
* 2/ intake fans normally have more filter, vent, HDD, bottom clearance air resistance than exhaust fans do,
* 3/ excess intake cfm will flow out vented PCI slot grills and other holes in case

I prefer using all PWM fans with a PWM hub/splitter using PSU power. My Define R2 has 3x TY-147 intakes controlled by CPU fan header PWM signal and no exhaust fans at all. Air temp in front of GPU and CPU intakes is 2c above ambient under full load. CPU & case fans idle 700rpm and max at 950-1050rpm full load.
Edited by doyll - 11/25/13 at 3:45pm
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
been doing some reading on the intake/outtake ratio (+ youtube vids). And that made me come to the conclusion that for terms of cooling the components, it doesn't matter that much if you have a positive, negative or 1:1 ratio. Positive is just better to keep your case cleaner. Negative can work too if the air passes through in the right places. There just needs to flow enough air in and out, in combination with a proper airflow inside to cool everything (so that all components on the mobo get some of the airflow).

So with these fans i've ordered (already looking for an extra 120mm intake for later on) i get about 105CFM in and out of the system (which of course will be lower in reality because of the filters, mesh, etc etc), this should be enough to run my system and keep it cool imo.
Edited by TiezZ BE - 11/18/13 at 5:31pm
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post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
I picked the case (nexus prominent R) up just before the weekend. And after taking a closer look to it, positive air pressure seems the way to go with this one. The PCI brackets are already vented by design and there is some mesh right next to them + all the intakes contain airfilters.

pic of the back: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=40656

So I already found and ordered a used Noiseblocker PL2 (max 1400rpm) fan which will match the PLP's perfectly. Someone was selling it because he finished his build and ordered too many noiseblockers tongue.gif
This will be an extra intake fan in the front so i can push more air to the back.

I'm gonna experiment a little when the fans arrive. Gonna place this PL2 above the PLPS intake fan (behind the 5.25" slots), maybe with fixed voltage (5V or 7V) or with voltage control (+ i can add a 9.5V speed reduction cable to the voltage control if needed). I'm assuming it's best that the intake fan placed in the highest position has the lowest cfm in (under load if using fixed voltage), so it won't overpower the airflow.

Thx again for the input so far thumb.gif
Edited by TiezZ BE - 11/25/13 at 2:18pm
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post #9 of 14
Using the manufacturer's cfm specification means almost nothing. it's the maximum amount of air the fan can produce in a fairy tail world.. and even if it is true (many are not) it is the airflow you will get with absolutely nothing restricting airflow.. no grilles, no filters, no cables, nothing. Fan setting on a clean bench running full speed.

Static pressure and CFM specs are maximum fan can do.
Static pressure is maximum lift of water in column when fan stops moving air. Static = stopped
CFM is maximum airflow when there is no resistance. Clean open benchtop.

Problem is neither is what we see in real world use.
There is always some resistance if only a wire grille.
It does not take much resistance to dramatically lower the airflow of Corsair AF fan with a static pressure rating of 0.5mm/H2O & 63.47cfm versus a Corsair SP rated 3.1mm/H2O & 62.74cfm.

On paper the AF is rated 0.73cfm better than SP fan. but when it reaches 0.5mm/H2O resistance it has no airflow/cfm at all.. While the SP fan is still flowing most of it's rated airflow/cfm.. doesn't stop until it reaches 3.1mm/H2O. Put a wire grill in front of AF and you loose a third of your airflow.. The SP will hardly loose any airflow.

And that's why fans with higher static pressure ratings are better case fans.. because cases typically have a grill, filter, HDD cage, cables, etc. restricting their airflow. To me they are just plain better for everything I do... except the one blowing cool air at me in the heat of summer.. and even that one is a PH-F140TS for my PH-TC14PE. wink.gif

Silverstone tested several grilles to see how much they restricted the airflow of a low static pressure fan. Wire grille & hexagonal holes were lowest flowing 71-72% of unrestricted fan's air. No idea what fan they used but obviously low static pressure rating.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/techta...hessis&area=en

Notice how little the wire grille restricted airflow with an Antec 120mm Tri-Cool fan (2.54mm/H20@2000rpm) fan :
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/art...nce-Noise-107/
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Using the manufacturer's cfm specification means almost nothing. it's the maximum amount of air the fan can produce in a fairy tail world.. and even if it is true (many are not) it is the airflow you will get with absolutely nothing restricting airflow.. no grilles, no filters, no cables, nothing. Fan setting on a clean bench running full speed. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Static pressure and CFM specs are maximum fan can do.
Static pressure is maximum lift of water in column when fan stops moving air. Static = stopped
CFM is maximum airflow when there is no resistance. Clean open benchtop.

Problem is neither is what we see in real world use.
There is always some resistance if only a wire grille.
It does not take much resistance to dramatically lower the airflow of Corsair AF fan with a static pressure rating of 0.5mm/H2O & 63.47cfm versus a Corsair SP rated 3.1mm/H2O & 62.74cfm.

On paper the AF is rated 0.73cfm better than SP fan. but when it reaches 0.5mm/H2O resistance it has no airflow/cfm at all.. While the SP fan is still flowing most of it's rated airflow/cfm.. doesn't stop until it reaches 3.1mm/H2O. Put a wire grill in front of AF and you loose a third of your airflow.. The SP will hardly loose any airflow.

And that's why fans with higher static pressure ratings are better case fans.. because cases typically have a grill, filter, HDD cage, cables, etc. restricting their airflow. To me they are just plain better for everything I do... except the one blowing cool air at me in the heat of summer.. and even that one is a PH-F140TS for my PH-TC14PE. wink.gif
Silverstone tested several grilles to see how much they restricted the airflow of a low static pressure fan. Wire grille & hexagonal holes were lowest flowing 71-72% of unrestricted fan's air. No idea what fan they used but obviously low static pressure rating.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/techta...hessis&area=en

Notice how little the wire grille restricted airflow with an Antec 120mm Tri-Cool fan (2.54mm/H20@2000rpm) fan :
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/art...nce-Noise-107/

Those CFM spec's are indeed never correct IRL mad.gif, I saw that in many reviews i've gone through, same with noiselevels. I personally choose noiseblocker fans because I want my rig to be quieter in my new case. It's in my living room and when i use it to watch series or an occasional movie it would be great if noise is lower. Also the static of the noiseblockers pressure seems decent enough to use them as a casefan if those reviews were correct.

Those phanteks look really nice, didn't do any research about phantek fans because the webshop i used doesn't sell them but the shop is near me and I can go pick them up myself (15-20 min's drive) to avoid international shipping cost (because it's in the netherlands).

Your link doesn't work here, is it this one? http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area=en&tid=wh_chessis

I also found this one, which was posted in another thread: http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_positive&area=usa
Edited by TiezZ BE - 11/25/13 at 5:24pm
Mine
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Cryorig H5 universal Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PL-PS 120mm (2x) Noiseblocker NB-Blacksilent XK2 140mm (2x) Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PL2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 pro Asus VG248QE Logitech G610 brown Cooler Master Silent Pro M600 
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Mine
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k Asus Z170 gaming pro Palit Super Jetstream GTX 1080 Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 2800Mhz CL14 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Crucial M4 128GB crucial mx100 256Gb Seagate 7200.14 2TB Sony Optiarc AD-7261S 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Cryorig H5 universal Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PL-PS 120mm (2x) Noiseblocker NB-Blacksilent XK2 140mm (2x) Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PL2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 pro Asus VG248QE Logitech G610 brown Cooler Master Silent Pro M600 
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