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New build, need help with water cooling components for extreme silence! - Page 2

post #11 of 16
Keep in mind that most of martins testing is from as far back as 2010..... one of the tests was relatively new by comparison. have you considered 140mm rads... your 900D supports them....140mm fans are inherently quieter, the question has been how good is their performance ? Until recently they fared pretty poorly .... but SPCR just did a new roundup and they went from trailing the 120s badly in the last roundup to completely dominating the most recent one.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1346-page7.html

An Antec fan actually edged out a 1st place win over the Phanteks after the 2nd round with Phanteks finishing a hair behind and the Scythe just behind that. But the Antec emitted a clicking noise and with 15 of them that would drive me nutz. Note that these tests are on air coolers not rads but two things are important:

1. The 140s went from getting trounced by the 120's to dominating with the new generation of fans, so test done back in 2010 - 2012 can no longere considered relevant .... at least not to the new generation of fans.

2. If anything, the close fin spacing of the air coolers presents as big or even a bigger challenge to fans.

I was planning a 900D build but switched at the last minute to the Enthoo Primo...... was $100 cheaper, smaller, better looking, has all the water cooling capacity I need, had oodles of unique features..... and it comes with 5 Phanteks fans. I didn't buy any fans with the case until I had a chance to see them in action ... then i went out and bought 10 more. Here's another review.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/heatsinks/37419-phanteks-f140?showall=&start=3

The 420s BTW have more cooling capacity than the 480s.

I shud also note the Noiseblocker is about to release a 140mm version of their e-Loop fans. I dunno if they will beat the Typhoon as the king of all rad fans for noise / performance ratio, but I 'm sure that when someone puts them on a rad and tests the GTs against the NBs and Phanteks head to head it's gonna be close.

If ya wanna look at the case, here's the wc options.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z1RzXMZ8BNI

An XT45-420 and XT45-280 will give ya 537 watts of cooling at 1250 rpm or 87% of ya heating load at stress test loads just from ya rads...... that doesn't include rad sides / shroud radiation, or heat radiated off MoBo, res, tubing fittings etc. It would be more than enough for extreme gaming sessions .... many peeps get by with just 60%.
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911 Carrera
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post #12 of 16

Maybe you already saw this one.

He's also on OCN.
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post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post


You make a persuasive argument about 140mm fans/rads.  However, I'm hesitant to go down that road because 1) I'd have to redo a bunch of research, this time looking at 140mm rads and fans, and 2) there's really not much data available for 140mm. 

 

While it would be great if I could simply assume that 140mm equivalents of 120mm products would be similar but better, I'm sure this is not always the case, and again, the lack of available data would make it difficult to prove or disprove this assumption.  The same goes for the assumption of fan performance on air coolers with close fin spacing vs performance on radiators.  Again, you make a good argument, and it makes sense to me, but I am just not experienced enough with this stuff to be able to make that sort of call without hard data.  I'll certainly revisit the 140mm idea on my next build.

 

As for the Phanteks 140mm fans in particular, the spcr testing is very impressive, as is the review you linked (especially the part about no low-rpm tick in a PWM fan), but unfortunately none of the phanteks fans would match the color scheme for my build.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I was planning a 900D build but switched at the last minute to the Enthoo Primo...... was $100 cheaper, smaller, better looking, has all the water cooling capacity I need, had oodles of unique features.....

If ya wanna look at the case, here's the wc options.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z1RzXMZ8BNI

 

The Enthoo Primo is indeed an impressive case.  However, the one thing I don't like about it is that in order to get the same radiator capacity as the 900D, you have to use the bottom horizontal 120.4 space (radiator laying across the bottom of the case, facing up).  This is my least favorite way to mount a radiator, as it is quite visible and it dumps a bunch of heat into the case.  My second-least favorite radiator placement is the single 120 or 140 radiator at the back, because I feel like it looks out of place, it can get in the way a bit, and it doesn't contribute that much raddage.

 

Without using these two locations, the maximum raddage I can get in the Enthoo Primo is a 120.4 in the top, a 120.2 in the front, and a 120.2 at the side, for a total of 120mm * 8.  Compare this to the 120 * 10 that I am planning in the 900D -- and that's even without using the front radiator mount option in the 900D.

 

I really like the idea of the bottom chamber in the 900D where air is drawn in on one side at the bottom and is exhausted out the other side at the bottom--this seems like a very efficient setup to me.  It also has the additional benefit of the radiator being semi-concealed by the bottom grating, giving it a nice look in my opinion.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiezZ BE View Post


Maybe you already saw this one.

He's also on OCN.

 

That's some interesting data he presents, and it really gives more credence to the Xiruilian fans as a good option for me.  However, I have a couple of issues with his testing.

  1. He is running all of the fans at their maximum speed.  Of course the Xiruilian and GT AP-15s are at the top of the list, they're the fastest fans in that lineup.
  2. He mentions a couple of notes on noise, but he does not do any quantitative noise measurements.  And his noise remarks aren't very helpful because the fans aren't being run at the same speed.

 

Not trying to be critical or nitpicky, I'm just saying that the data is good in some ways and insufficient to make a judgement call in other ways (particularly in terms of noise).

 

It does sort of confirm my own understanding of the basic general ranking of the fans, though, with the Scythe GT at the top, followed by the Corsair SP120 and others around the same area, followed by the Silverstone AP and Noctuas.  This is in line with what I've seen elsewhere, namely Martin and Coolingtechnique (with the exception of the Coolingtechnique's GT testing).

 


 

Any more opinions on my remaining fan options? 

 

I could also add the Noiseblocker M12-S3HS back into the list since I won't be plugging my fans directly into my motherboard headers after all, so I don't have to worry about the current draw.  However, I'm not convinced it's any better than the other 4 options still on the list.  Any help or feedback is greatly appreciated!

post #14 of 16
Just thought I'd give you my experience. I have ST30 rads, a 240 and a 360. I also have a D5 pump, and 5 Noiseblocker PL-2 fans. This is cooling a de-lidded 4770k and 2 x 780s in SLI, all overclocked.

I have the fans controlled by a Bitfenix Hydra Pro fan controller. They run at 5v (or around 600rpm) virtually all the time, and the system is completely silent. (I am a silence nut.) Temps remain within acceptable levels even when gaming. The only exception is BF4, which pushes both the CPU and GPUs, and produces CPU temps around 80-85 degrees (GPUs are still under 60). For BF4 I bump the fans up to around 1000 rpm or, on a really hot day, the full 1400rpm. This keeps CPU temps under 70 degrees and is still fairly quiet.

In other words, I recommend the NB PL-2 fans in your setup, which is very similar to mine, with a similar objective of achieving silence. I also own 5 GT AP-15s and 5 NB E-loops, as it happens, and although I haven't tested them on the radiators, from testing with a power supply and resistor cables the noise profiles don't seem to be radically different, and I can't imagine temperatures would be all that different either. With 10 fans in push/pull at low speed and only one GPU you should be able to achieve silence with just about any of these fans.
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossb View Post

Just thought I'd give you my experience.

 

That's some very good info, I really appreciate the input.  You do indeed have a setup with similar heat output (and noise/performance philosophy :D), which gives me some more confidence in my setup.  That's great that the NB PL-2 fans are performing so well for you.

 

It sounds like I would really be fine with any of the fans in my list.  With a similar amount of heat but twice the rad space you have, I should be fine operating my fans at ~600rpm in almost all situations.  Even if I get some fans which are not as good as your PL-2s are doing for you, I will still be just fine because I'll have more total fans and radiator space.  I could even switch to the Enthoo Primo and go with the setup I described above with a total of 120 * 8 rads and it would still be quite sufficient. 

 

I'm not demeaning your setup in any way, it sounds like it is doing very well! :thumb:  I'm just saying I think I will have a little more overkill than I had originally thought :rolleyes:

 


 

If I were to choose purely on looks, I think I would go for the Cougar Turbines, or the SP120s if I was ambitious enough to paint the color circles gold to match my color scheme.  The Glidestreams look pretty cool too. 

 

  1. I'm hesitant about the Cougar Turbines because there is literally no data on their performance on a radiator.  They're very inexpensive and I like the design.  Anyone have any experience with these on a radiator?  Heck, anyone have experience with these at all?  Can't even seem to find a review.
  2. I honestly don't want to do any painting for this build, so I feel like if I got the SP120s they would just sit there without a color ring and just be average-looking, moderately-overpriced fans.
  3. If I'm going to be operating my fans at near-minimum RPM almost all the time, it seems like such a waste to get the Glidestreams, since this is their weakest area of operation.  I'm sure they'd do ok, but it's the principle of buying something that I know would be sub-par for its primary intended use.  They do look pretty cool though.

 

My other fan choices seem fine too, although personally I'm starting to dislike the looks of both of the Noiseblocker fans with their semi-transparent blades. 

 

I'm continuing to talk myself in circles. 

 

Can anyone offer any further input or opinions on the fans in my list?  Thanks! :thumb: 


Edited by Sir Awesome III - 11/25/13 at 1:11am
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Awesome III View Post

Quote:

You make a persuasive argument about 140mm fans/rads.  However, I'm hesitant to go down that road because 1) I'd have to redo a bunch of research, this time looking at 140mm rads and fans, and 2) there's really not much data available for 140mm. 

While it would be great if I could simply assume that 140mm equivalents of 120mm products would be similar but better, I'm sure this is not always the case, and again, the lack of available data would make it difficult to prove or disprove this assumption.

Well you can in fact see that radiator performance is in fact proportional to surface area when the internal piping and fin spacing is identical. Not only is this stated in every cooling system design textbook but is borne out by actual testing and my experience as a designer of cooling systems for buildings and power systems. There's also the acknowledged advantage of the motor dead space behind the fan being of significantly less impact on 140mm rads.

Quote:
The same goes for the assumption of fan performance on air coolers with close fin spacing vs performance on radiators.  Again, you make a good argument, and it makes sense to me, but I am just not experienced enough with this stuff to be able to make that sort of call without hard data.  I'll certainly revisit the 140mm idea on my next build.

The data exists .... it's been posted here on OCN before. Wish I bookmarked the site but it was pretty much a slam dunk ..... I didn't save the url tho..... I'll give it another look when I have some time this afternoon. Fight now have a deadline I gotta meet.
Quote:
As for the Phanteks 140mm fans in particular, the spcr testing is very impressive, as is the review you linked (especially the part about no low-rpm tick in a PWM fan), but unfortunately none of the phanteks fans would match the color scheme for my build.

Color is changable. I wouldn't let that affect my decision. I wouldn't use paint but if ya concerned about color, why not go for thee exact color match ? Guy does sleeving, tube and fab coloring in thread below

http://www.overclock.net/t/1244335/sleeving-custom-color-dye

But that concern vanishes when ya use the 140mm rads
Quote:
The Enthoo Primo is indeed an impressive case. However, the one thing I don't like about it is that in order to get the same radiator capacity as the 900D, you have to use the bottom horizontal 120.4 space (radiator laying across the bottom of the case, facing up). This is my least favorite way to mount a radiator, as it is quite visible and it dumps a bunch of heat into the case. My second-least favorite radiator placement is the single 120 or 140 radiator at the back, because I feel like it looks out of place, it can get in the way a bit, and it doesn't contribute that much raddage.

Without using these two locations, the maximum raddage I can get in the Enthoo Primo is a 120.4 in the top, a 120.2 in the front, and a 120.2 at the side, for a total of 120mm * 8. Compare this to the 120 * 10 that I am planning in the 900D -- and that's even without using the front radiator mount option in the 900D.

I know the 290 is real furnace but even that doesn't warrant the rad space..... most would argue that a 480 + 360 is adequate for tho 290x in CF + the CPU. I tend to try and gain a bit more cooling and lacking any such restrictions with twin 290s, yes I can see using a 480 for each ....+ a 240 for the CPU. So if CF is your intent, I can see why ya made that choice.
Quote:
I really like the idea of the bottom chamber in the 900D where air is drawn in on one side at the bottom and is exhausted out the other side at the bottom--this seems like a very efficient setup to me.  It also has the additional benefit of the radiator being semi-concealed by the bottom grating, giving it a nice look in my opinion.

I was always concerned about the bottom chamber with the 900D.... two rads down there ..... wasn't really comfy with the "in out" circulation in that small space. The air going out is preheated by the in rad thereby drastically reducing the 2nd rad's performance. If you are designing based upon a delta T of 10C, DT being the difference between the ambient air temperature and the water temperature on the outgoing side of the radiator.....your air exhaust therefore is substantially elevated for the air going into the 2nd rad..... that was one of the reasons I switched from the 900D ....was getting all that extra height for a chamber with compromised effectiveness. I liked the idea of using the chamber but ...... would have used it with just one rad and let the other side be the air supply / exhaust for it.

Not saying the 900D was a bad choice, it would have been mine if no Enthoo's release .... wasn't an efficient use of space but it very much could handle the job. I just found that I could stuff plenty of Rad for twin 780 or 780 Ti's in the Enthoo and still meet my Delta T goals.....desk space is at a premium in an engineer's office. ..... we have lotta clutter smile.gif
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911 Carrera
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