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Choosing a pump for silent operation - Page 2

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloppy007 View Post

Are you going to run the fans below 1000 rpm? In any case, the difference between the ST30 and the XT45 is minimal in temps, and rather high in restriction.

Yes, I do plan to run the fans below 1000 rpm if possible.  Perhaps as low as 600 rpm.

 

You make a good point about ST30 vs XT45.  I think it may be worth the few less watts of heat dissipated (for a 360mm rad, 3W difference @10°C with fans at 600 RPM) to have a much less restrictive loop (0.23 PSI per rad instead of 0.48 PSI).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloppy007 View Post

As for another pump, the MCP35X is noisier than the D5, and you have to make sure it's fully decoupled.

And as for 2 components of the same sound pressure level, that's right, 3.01dB. But if a 35X makes 40dB at 1gpm, two 35X will make less than 40dB at 1gpm.

Yes, that's why I'd rather use a D5 like the MCP 655-PWM-Drive if I can get away with it, instead of the MCP-35X.

 

So you're saying if you take 2 pumps in series and dial them down to the same flow rate as a single pump, they will make less noise than the single pump?  If so, then it sounds to me like I should go for 2x MCP 655-PWM-Drive.  This would be quieter than two 35X's but should definitely provide sufficient pressure (compared to a single 655-PWM-Drive which might not).  I think this might be the best option.  At least, the best option for lowest noise... not the best for my wallet!  :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloppy007 View Post

Oh and one thing: 617W???? No way.
1) All the consumed power is not translated into heat.
2) You can't dump all the heat in your loop. That's why some TIMs are better than others and why some waterblocks perform better than others. And you'll be using a Haswell CPU that has crappy TIM between the IHS and the die, that's even worse heat transfer.
3) 84W is the consumption including the iGPU. My 3570K consumes 90W at 4.5GHz, 1.33V. According to your formula, my 3570K should produce 77 * (4.5/3.5) * (1.33/1.2)^2 = 121W. That's 1/3 away from the real consumption.
4) And I'd said the same will be true for the GPU. It won't be able to generate almost 500W!!!

Your planned loop is overkill for a light CPU and a single GPU.

1) True.  But it is just an estimate, and I wanted to be conservative.

2) True.  But I am planning to use high quality TIMs for best heat transfer and I will likely be delidding the CPU if necessary after testing its thermal performance.

3) That's a very good point.  So, I should lower my estimate a bit.

4) Actually, from following the r9 290x and 290 owners club thread, I've seen that it's quite possible to generate that kind of wattage with an aggressive overclock.  These cards eat wattage like no other.  I may not be able to achieve such a high overclock, but I used that in my estimate to be conservative.

 

Additionally, from the thread I linked, I calculated that my proposed loop could not actually dissipate all of that estimated heat with a 10­­°C delta.  So, if that estimate is too high that would be a good thing :p

 

You may be right, my planned loop may very well be overkill.  However, I will be aggressively overclocking two notoriously power-hungry components and I want to cool them as much as possible with the absolute minimum of noise.  I totally get that it isn't necessary, but I find this kind of challenge fun :thumb: 


Edited by Sir Awesome III - 11/21/13 at 4:51pm
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Awesome III View Post


You may be right, my planned loop may very well be overkill.  However, I will be aggressively overclocking two notoriously power-hungry components and I want to cool them as much as possible with the absolute minimum of noise.  I totally get that it isn't necessary, but I find this kind of challenge fun thumb.gif  

My main point was that being able to dissipate 9,000 watts (just a hypothetical number) would have no gains over being able to dissipate 600 watts if that 600 watts is all that is being produced.

What you should be looking to do is have enough overhead (or expandability) in the future if you were to add a second GPU. However, I would say that having just the expandability would suffice since you have an emphasis on low noise. Expandability being that you have space in the case for additional rad(s) should you need them later on.

In my loop I have a 420mm rad, 140mm rad and a 240mm rad. My fans are all 800 rpm and they are only in push or pull never both. I have 2 7970s which are at stock (#ballerstatus) and a 2500k thats at 4.5. All my components hover in the mid 40s while gaming which I find perfectly acceptable.

I understand you are trying to stay at your max clocks, but you will probably find that your components will be significantly hotter than the water temp in the loop.

In a previous iteration of my build (I think when I just had 1 7970 underwater) my water temp was around 17c cooler than the GPUl, and going from 360mm + 240mm to adding two 140mm didn't change component temps a bit.
Edited by Rickles - 11/22/13 at 10:41am
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post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the input, Rickles.  Everyone here has been very helpful!

 

If I wanted to add a second GPU in the future, I think I'd have to sacrifice some noise for performance by turning up the fans.  The other option would be to add an additional 120.2 radiator to the front of my 900D and/or an additional 120.1 to the back and/or an external rad.  However, if I did that, I would probably have to upgrade my pump since I've decided to go for a single MCP 655-PWM-Drive (see below).

 

I do have to disagree on one point though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickles View Post

My main point was that being able to dissipate 9,000 watts (just a hypothetical number) would have no gains over being able to dissipate 600 watts if that 600 watts is all that is being produced.

 

I think you're leaving out the delta ­°C from the equation.  My understanding is the following (please correct me if my understanding is not accurate!):

 

All of the watts of heat dissipated are calculated based on a 10°C delta (difference between ambient air temperature and water temperature).  10°C seems to be a typical, good target delta.  If the system components generate more watts of heat than the water cooling loop can dissipate at 10°C delta, then it will not hit this target, i.e. the real delta will be higher than 10°C.  On the other hand, if the capabilities of the water cooling loop exceed the heat output of the system components, this delta will be lower than the assumed 10°C. 

 

Based on the above (assuming it's correct), the ability to dissipate a higher amount of "watts@10°C" would benefit my system by lowering the actual delta, resulting in lower temps.

 


 

After running some numbers, I think I'm going to go with a single MCP 655-PWM-Drive pump and replace the radiators in my planned build with XT45s instead of ST30s in order to reduce the restriction.  Changing the radiators would cost me an additional $45 total, whereas upgrading to 2x pump would be an extra $170 (including a dual top).  Since I'm now fairly confident the single pump can handle my loop after reducing the restriction a bit, I don't think it would be worth the money to go for dual pumps. 

 

Anyone have a different opinion?

 

My budget is not the limiting factor, but I just don't think it would be worth it, and I'd rather not spend that much extra for no reason!  :p  The other benefit of having dual pumps is protection against pump failure, but I'm confident I can set up an automatic shutoff of my system based on the pump RPM.

post #14 of 16
Good choice
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post #15 of 16
Even with the restriction you wouldn't have a problem. The thing about D5's is they almost never just die, you will hear it long before it bites the dust.
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post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Even with the restriction you wouldn't have a problem. The thing about D5's is they almost never just die, you will hear it long before it bites the dust.

true mines been going almost 24/7 for 3 years now problem free and I run a rx360 rx240 2 gpus and 1 cpu with about 5 feet of tubing.
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