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post #141 of 220
I've also emailed the adresses listed... I am awaiting a reply. DFI
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post #142 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvis View Post
Certainly *some* of that can be attributed to forums like this one, Toms, Anandtech types etc, but without DFI-Streets support, to get these finicky monsters going, their sales would have slumped years ago....
The real issue DFI defies Occam's Razor. It's why it's a pain to configure board; why it's picky and, ironically, only the most expensive hardware works well with it (could it be true that it's engineer only uses the same, which is why everyone else has to mortgage their home to use a DFI board, right?).

Too me, DFI is like iPod, another class driving fad. Folks flock to fads to be "kewl" then spend their other time looking down their noses at the "unwashed masses". If you've seen the computers those who work on them use, you'll learn quickly get what is the easiest to maintain, stable and has the longest service life -- and stay away from marketing gimmicks.

A motherboard is the most crucial part of a computer system, it's not a toy. If it doesn't work with most of the hardware it's an engineering failure, period. No ands, ifs, buts or ors, as the hardware is designed for ATX specs.

So in essence tech advice for DFI is completely wrong: it's not that the hardware isn't good enough to run with it's boards, it's it boards that doesn't run with the hardware. Because the hardware runs FINE on 99% of the systems it's designed to run on. It's not the fault of 99% of the market for 0.5% that can't get their act together.
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post #143 of 220
I'm starting to think that you don't know what Occam's Razor is trying to say.

You have some very valid points and some are way off base. Overall the only thing that irritates me about you is your pseudo-highbrow outlook that is really just personal opinion prettied up with a 'tone' that says "I-know-everything."
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post #144 of 220
The whole DFI concept violates Occam's Razor. It's not practical; it's not easily serviceable; it doesn't stick to spec; it doesn't work with most hardware. So, yes, it violates Occam's Razor on all counts.

My attitude comes from reading the endless soap operas DFI has provided hardware forums for years. It's tiring, as it's not going anywhere when the same complainers gooble up the same hardware again.

Secondly, this "know-it-all" attitude you're seeing comes from reading too much BS by marketeers; gimmick pushers; overtly biased cheerleaders; forum plants (paid advertizers who's job is similiar to cheerleaders, but they actually work for the company), who are all out to rob you blind with inaccurate and iPod like advertizing...."Buy this XYZ product now it's HOT, because look, it has a nice blue LED in it, and it can make your PC go 20billion miles per hour!!!"

I know my hardware because my family is in the business. Even though they do make their living via MS and Intel I don't make it a purpose to promote them over common sense. That's what's missing here. It's black and white, either DFI is like MS or IBM to be a scapegoat for every ill known, or it's the reverse. Little balance, and it's that imbalance that's tiring on ALL hardware sites that are pushing products because their bottom line rests on it, too.

Folks need honest reviews and opinions of hardware, not because someone is on the "take".
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post #145 of 220
Once again, you have a lot of very valid points. I -still- don't think you quite understand what Occam's Razor is saying.
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post #146 of 220
Thanks for pointing out again why folks can and do have a dim view of DFI-Street, let alone DFI motherboards. If facts (not opinions) don't work, use ad hominens instead.
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post #147 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosser13 View Post
I got a reply from DFI, its pretty much the same as the one which has been posted up here.

I've replied to them again and am waiting to see if they reply in return
I did the same thing they just insulted me by sending me the same exact email they sent me the first time. Ohh well Ive got nothing but time. Ill just keep emailing them
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post #148 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryNite View Post
The real issue DFI defies Occam's Razor. It's why it's a pain to configure board; why it's picky and, ironically, only the most expensive hardware works well with it (could it be true that it's engineer only uses the same, which is why everyone else has to mortgage their home to use a DFI board, right?).

Too me, DFI is like iPod, another class driving fad. Folks flock to fads to be "kewl" then spend their other time looking down their noses at the "unwashed masses". If you've seen the computers those who work on them use, you'll learn quickly get what is the easiest to maintain, stable and has the longest service life -- and stay away from marketing gimmicks.

A motherboard is the most crucial part of a computer system, it's not a toy. If it doesn't work with most of the hardware it's an engineering failure, period. No ands, ifs, buts or ors, as the hardware is designed for ATX specs.

So in essence tech advice for DFI is completely wrong: it's not that the hardware isn't good enough to run with it's boards, it's it boards that doesn't run with the hardware. Because the hardware runs FINE on 99% of the systems it's designed to run on. It's not the fault of 99% of the market for 0.5% that can't get their act together.

I own 4 DFI boards now they all run flawlessly. I must have built at least 100 systems useing DFI boards. I started with the old 754 socket NF3 250, Ive used the Ultra D, The SLI-DR, The Expert and now the limmited edition Venus. Ive never had to RMA ONE DFI board. I have never had any compatabily issues. Possibly becuase I buy the best hardware I can buy for my systems. I have however used just about every brand of value ram made in the NF3 board and the Ultra D with absolutly no problems. Needless to say I have 3 dead Asus boards here right now and one dead Abit. Thank god for neweggs service becuase I have nothing but bad luck with Asus and Abit. ESC makes a good board for the price, Ive used several of there boards and the only problem Ive had with there boards is cheep Chipset fans.

Anyways my point is. I can tell your a smart guy and all but I dont think you have enought personal DFI experiece to bash there product and there users in such a way. Its been my experience that they make the best boards on the market. I dont buy DFI boards to be cool. I buy them becuase they never fail me.

DFI forum will be missed by me becuase the OCing info they have on these specific boards is bar none the best available. Do I need DFI Forum to use a DFI board or build systems with there boards? No I dont. Ive heard alot of people say there boards wouldnt fire up for them with auto setting but Ive personally never seen it with my own eyes. You may want to take into concideration Ive only used Nvidia Chipset versions of there boards. Anyways opinions are like Butt Holes..... Everyone has one! Did DFI make a mistake shutting down the forums of coarse. Do they build over rated junk for people to buy so they can be cool? I dont think so.
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post #149 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryNite View Post
Thanks for pointing out again why folks can and do have a dim view of DFI-Street, let alone DFI motherboards. If facts (not opinions) don't work, use ad hominens instead.
Once again, the pseudo highbrow condescending attitude. Look, being able to use terms that Aristotle used to codify logic doesn't make your arguments any stronger. I've not once attacked you as a person. I said I don't think you know what Occam's Razor really means. That is not ad hominem. Ad hominem would be saying that your argument was wrong because you're a moron.

I DID commented on my personal distaste for your address, which is also not an ad hominem attack because I did not use it as a point against your argument.

Example of ad hominem...
"You're argument is wrong because you're an idiot/ugly/lame/<insert insult>."
Never was said in any capacity.

What was said...
"You've a lot of valid points. However, your address sucks and doesn't lend anything to your argument."
Totally different.

Once again, your concept of something is wrong. It was a nice try. Accusation of ad hominem attack is probably the most misunderstood and abused 'mechanic' of logic, so you're not alone.
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post #150 of 220
yep ...streeter her...

And like Chevys...DFI boards rule... but if the street is gone so is my loyalty...If I dont get good support from Chevy you bet you butt I would buy a ford (asus)

but this isnt a debate about who or what is top dog...everyone has personal preference... and it IS good to have a variety...otherwise we wouldnt have boards that take a 200fsb cpu and push it well over 300fsb with ease...

I plan on mailing Travis in a few before I do my part on the mass email to DFI...

I thing the letter havis wrote need to be a little longer...DFI need to see that dfi-street swayed our purchasing decision....and without the street support out sway will go else where... mine included...
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