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D-rev chips on 8gb sticks

1K views 17 replies 3 participants last post by  White Wind 
#1 ·
When I try to gather informations about the ICs that may be found on ram sticks, I don't know if what is told about 4gb sticks is relevant for 8gb sticks as well.
Can you guys tell me on which 8gb sticks D-rev Samsung chips can be found ? Well, or other performance-oriented chips (I'll be on Haswell, Z87), but no BFR, CFR, MFR.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
There are no desktop 8GB modules with Samsung 2Gbit D-rev as it is only possible to use (at least) 4Gbit chips on desktop 8GB modules.
For 8GB modules, there are only two known well-clocking chips. First are Hynix MFR (which you discared) and second are Samsung 4Gbit B-rev, which aren't any better than MFR, to be honest.
 
#3 ·
Ok ! Well if I discarded the Hynix, that's because they are said to oc high but to perform not so well.

So I think the best I can get from that perspective are the HYK0 B-rev chips, and that the G.Skill 2400C10 2x8GB kits have enough chances to hold them.
 
#4 ·
MFR were criticised only when put on high-end single-sided 4GB modules as such configurations provide "impressive" MHz/timing numbers, which aren't backed up by performance levels of similar dual-sided 4GB modules.
With 8GB modules, MFR are no longer single-sided so performance is no longer crippled. Comparing them to B-rev Samsung - average Samsung will run a bit tighter up to DDR3-2400 but for higher freqs, MFR is the only choice.
 
#5 ·
Hi Sam
Now I'm a bit confused because on hwbot I've read one of your posts and it says : " Dual-sided (8Gb) sticks are faster than single-sided (4Gb) but, because of the density, subtimings like tRFC have to be ridiculously high (250++) meaning these will still be no match for 2Gb/4Gb modules in terms of performance. "
And I had someone else confirming that mfr's suffer from high trfc, that it's the nature of the ic.
 
#6 ·
All desktop 8GB modules have to use 4Gbit chips in dual-sided configuration and all 4Gbit chips have to run high tRFC (250+) to get anywhere.

4GB sticks come in two flavours:
1)single-sided 4Gbit configs - you lose performance because of them being single sided, plus you can't run them fully tight due to density. On the upside, those are relatively light on IMC and easy to bin, hence you can achieve impressive raw numbers.
2)dual-sided 2Gbit configs - opposite to the above.
 
#7 ·
Understood.. So now I see, thank you for those valuable informations Sam.
So the best would be getting 2Gbit-chips in dual-rank and that means 4x4GB sticks, but the reason why I wanted 2x8GB was because I heard that the more number of sticks the more pressure on the IMC, and that would mean a smaller oc possible for the CPU (amongst other downsides). If that is right, that holds true for Haswell ?
 
#9 ·
Here you go:

http://flyingsuicide.net/articles/list-of-ddr3-memory-ics-and-typical-overclocks/

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285767-DDR3-IC-thread

Hynix MFR hitting some very high clocks on both Z87n and X79:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286654-Corsair-Vengeance-Pro-CMY16GX3M2A2400C10R-2x8GB-DDR3-2400-C10

I tested 1 set of 2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance v4.21 Sammy 2400MHz vs 2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance 2400MHz Hynix MFR v5.29 on my Z87 and the Hynix MFR can definitely go past 2400MHz but requires more power. The Sammy IC maxes out at 1200MHz, but can do it at lower volts.

I got the MFR to run up to 1333MHz, but the sub-timings were so high that performance decreased and required too much effort to test and tune, but with some patience I am sure these MFR kit can run stable at decent timings/voltage at 1300MHz 24/7.

For now I am running 2400MHz of the MFR @ 1.59v with timings 10-12-12-31-1T.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for this post iatacs.
Is it possible for you to tell me if @2400MHz the tRFC of the MFR kit was higher than the one with the sammies ?
Because I've searched and found out that some 2x8GB kits @2400MHz can do well with a tRFC set to ~230/240 (not sure about the ICs those kits hold, they were Patriot Venom DDR3-2133 and Avexir Green DDR3-2133), and every 8GB-module with MFR ICs I've seen need a tRFC set to something like ~350/400+, which is said to be a performance killer.
Would be greatly appreciated, thanks
 
#12 ·
Hi guys, me again
Firstly thank you for your help, it's really appreciated
smile.gif


So, I'm settled for Hynix MFR chips ^^ Now I'm looking for a DDR3-2133/2400 2x8GB kit that has good chances to hold the MFRs, and able to take me to 2400 CL10(9?) 1T, 2666 CL11(10?) 1T, under voltage good for 16h/7d, on a 4670K (MVIF).
Been reading Sam's reviews on ocaholic and other stuff, and I've then come up with those, but I'm opened to other suggestions:

- G.Skill Ares 2400CL11 - 140€ (191$) (doesn't fit my colour scheme though)

- Team Group Xtreem 2400CL10 - 135€ (185$)

- G.Skill TridentX 2666CL12 - 165€ (225$)

- Patriot Viper 3 Venom Red 2400CL10 - 170€ (232$)

These three, I don't know much about what they can do :

- G.Skill Sniper 2400CL11 - 138€ (189$)

- ADATA XPG V2 2400CL11 - 158€ (216$)

- ADATA XPG Gaming v2.0 2400CL11 - 167€ (228$)

There's also the Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400CL10 kit (172€/235$) but it seems this one often shows a higher tRFC value in the tests I've seen.

Any idea about what the best would be ?
 
#13 ·
The firs thing I did was to remove the heatsinks on my sticks. They are worthless and pretty useless on the Vengeance (non-pro).

There is a way to tell which ICs are present on the kit by the serial number for some brands. I am familiar with Corsair because they make it so easy with version numbers. For the other brands you have to do a bit more research. A good place to start is Xtreme Systems forum on the Xtreme Bandwidth section. Those guys there really know all the details about each manufacturer and their kits.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?164-Xtreme-Bandwidth

From what I have seen on testing faster RAM on my end is that secondary and tertiary timings don't really make a huge difference in performance. The first set of timings, speed and voltage is what really matters. I wouldn't get too hung up on the whole tRFC value too much. For higher density kits that are running at 2133 or 2400+MHz the timings will have to be a bit loose compared to 2GB/4GB sticks. Also, don't forget that the CPU's IMC plays a big role on this whole thing. No matter how good the RAM is, it's all dependent on the IMC. If the IMC can't go past a certain speed then you are stuck until you get a different CPU.

Good luck!
 
#14 ·
Thank you
smile.gif

Yeah I am aware about the IMC. And the researches about the ICs were already done; the kits I mentioned can be MFRs, I was just wondering which would have the best chances to have them and to give me the best numbers once overclocked (if the IMC is okay with that of course), and if some are more advisable than the others. But thanks for the input iatacs19 !
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Wind View Post

Thank you
smile.gif

Yeah I am aware about the IMC. And the researches about the ICs were already done; the kits I mentioned can be MFRs, I was just wondering which would have the best chances to have them and to give me the best numbers once overclocked (if the IMC is okay with that of course), and if some are more advisable than the others. But thanks for the input iatacs19 !
Well that's the thing, unless you know which ICs you are getting there is no way to know if any of those kits will perform beyond their rated speeds/timings.

I tried a Corsair Vengeance Pro 1866 kit rated 9-10-9-27 that could overclock to 2400 11-13-13-31-1T @ 1.68V and this was Hynix MFR. I took off the heatsink and compared to the Corsair Vengeance (non-Pro) 2400 10-12-12-31-1T and they looked identical; exact same ICs and PCB. The CPU used was the same 4770K. So it can be assumed that the 2400 and 1866 kit are basically the same module, except the 2400 was binned and guaranteed to do 2400MHz while the 1866MHz probably didn't hit 2400MHz reliably, but could do 1866MHz with more aggressive timings.

If I had to choose from the kits you listed I would personally buy the G.Skill TridentX 2666CL12 - 165€ (225$). At least with this kit you could assume that it would be able to run at 2133/2400 with lower timing/voltage without too much trouble.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Wind View Post

But with a 2400CL10 kit (with MFRs), I could hope for 2400CL9 and 2666CL10
rather than
with a 2666CL12 kit (still with MFRs) hope for 2400CL10 and 2666CL11.

The former should be better, no ?
I think it's actually very hard to achieve tCL 9 at 2400MHz with 2 x 8GB modules.

If taking price into consideration then the Team Group Xtreem 2400CL10 - 135€ (185$) is a better deal, provided you get Hynix MFR or don't bother to overclock. But really all the kits you listed are already very good, we are talking about minuscule differences at best.
thumb.gif
 
#18 ·
Ow okay ^_^
Sabishiihito once told me that the TridentX 2666 are definitely Hynix MFR as that's the only high density IC that can run at those speeds to date.
Going for anything else below 2666 is taking the risk to miss MFR ICs.

That's settled
smile.gif
phew thanks a lot guys
 
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