Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [wccftech] AMD Carrizo APU To Feature Excavator Core, GCN Graphics, DDR3 Memory and FM2+ Support – 65W SKUs Arrive in 2015
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[wccftech] AMD Carrizo APU To Feature Excavator Core, GCN Graphics, DDR3 Memory and FM2+ Support – 65W SKUs Arrive in 2015 - Page 6

post #51 of 108
Vishera till 2016? Jeez. Here I come Intel.
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post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post

Vishera till 2016? Jeez. Here I come Intel.

Lol, Kaveri IS streamroller. This thread is about Excavator.
I think you mean no SR FX, but that doesn't really belong in this thread.

*** happened to the quote? I quoted"No Steamroller? Jeez. Here I come Intel."
post #53 of 108
You're assuming that FX is your only option for an enthusiast system. If HSA and whatnot take off, then I'll be more than happy to replace my 6300/AM3+ with 7850k/FM2+. I probably won't because that costs money, but Kaveri is supposed to have both better single-thread performance and better parallel performance. Give it a chance. Intel is just going for power savings while marginally improving performance, while AMD is trying to redo how CPUs operate with their APUs. Whether or not they'll be successful is anybody's guess, but hopefully it makes Intel step up their game.
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post #54 of 108
Lol he probably edited the quote right after he posted it.
post #55 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

You're assuming that FX is your only option for an enthusiast system. If HSA and whatnot take off, then I'll be more than happy to replace my 6300/AM3+ with 7850k/FM2+. I probably won't because that costs money, but Kaveri is supposed to have both better single-thread performance and better parallel performance. Give it a chance. Intel is just going for power savings while marginally improving performance, while AMD is trying to redo how CPUs operate with their APUs. Whether or not they'll be successful is anybody's guess, but hopefully it makes Intel step up their game.

Your right about both, but the only way for intel to gain more performance, is to start hardwiring instructions into the silicon, and nobody wants to pay for that leve of optimization and intel already does that in the decoders to some degree iirc.

truth is, not much be clock speed to gain, even if they doubled the ipc of most cpu's, most oftware simply wouldn't improve performance much if at all. available ipc in most intel and amd cpu's is between 2-4, problem is, most software hovers around 1.4-1.6

so even if they make the chip wider, its not going to speed up much.
post #56 of 108
All that tells me is that optimization and multi-threading are the ways of the future, and once the architecture can't be improved, MOAR JIGGAHERTZ! I want every game to be BF4 with Mantle, not Skyrim or Starcraft II. I want every CPU to overclock like Richland, not Haswell.
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post #57 of 108
Even a lot of software wouldn't benefit from LCU parallelization. That's why some programs are still single or dual-threaded, because more threads wouldn't help -- and in some cases would possibly slow things down. This applies to some game engines as well. Sometimes a lot of threads just aren't needed.

But yeah, parallel workloads are definitely the future as many apps out there would actually benefit from this.
post #58 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

That could put those extra units in good use but who knows how many bottlenecks they are gonna introduce.

Just list of the things that change when you do SMT within the INT core:
- decode shared by two threads
- integer RF shared by two threads
- scheduler shared by two threads
- data cache shared by two threads
- thread retire shared by two threads
...
Its a nightmare.

The simplest solution to not having enough cores ... (drum roll) .... is to add more cores (by adding more modules).

To understand the magnitude of the problem of a shared decoder, consider microcoded instructions. Division (which is microcoded) can take up to 72 cycles. When the decoder is issuing micro-ops for a micro-coded instruction to one thread, it cannot decode instructions for the other thread until the microcode program has finished.

This means if one thread is doing a particularly bad divide, the other core is starving for up to 72 cycles (a very long time). Dedicated decode per thread makes the problem go away. Oh and btw, if you don't think this issue affects Hyperthreading, think again.

I'm thinking in the future, intel may introduce dedicated decode for each thread for Hyperthreading in future cores.
post #59 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Even a lot of software wouldn't benefit from LCU parallelization. That's why some programs are still single or dual-threaded, because more threads wouldn't help -- and in some cases would possibly slow things down. This applies to some game engines as well. Sometimes a lot of threads just aren't needed.

But yeah, parallel workloads are definitely the future as many apps out there would actually benefit from this.

Don't physics engine really like multi-threadedness? That's why PhysX is so pretty and actually works on Nvidia's cards using the GPU but fails hilariously when running on AMD or Intel CPU cores. One of the bigger problems is that, even though processors are getting more and more powerful, programs are getting more and more bloated. Do you really think that a typical office PC from 2003 could run Office 2011 very well? Of course not! It does the exact same but so many resources go into making it look pretty and programmers just don't bother with optimizing much because they don't need to.
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post #60 of 108
It depends on the physics engine. I know that Physx has terrible CPU support and performance until Physx 3.0, which actually scales beyond two threads and has other improvements to yield more consistent performance (this is why Borderlands 2 still allows even non-CUDA-capable GeForce users to mess with the Physx slider in that game.)

A game like Planetside 2 is a game that benefited greatly for more CPU parallelization. Originally it ran player position, object physics, bullet physics (bullet drop, velocity, etc.), collision, shadows, etc. all on one dominant thread, which is why even people with modern Intel chips were getting terrible frames in many cases.

Not every game would benefit from that though, since not every game has that kind of stuff going on. Some of those things could've (and should've) been offloaded to the actual GPU instead. I know that the really pretty particle effects in InFamous: Second Son (I know it's not a PC game but idgaf) are rendered entirely on the GPU rather than being offloaded to the CPU and the game retains its smooth framerate. I'd like to see devs take advantage of APU Xfire systems and utilize the APU for such calculations and rendering.
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