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[GN] AMD: "FX is Not EOL" & Why What We Need in a CPU is Changing - Page 13

post #121 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Buy FM2+ with Kaveri and get hybrid cf and Mantle should get rid of the cpu bottleneck.
Steamroller should be quite good single threaded for non Mantle

if history tells us anything, the amd will still be slower and *maybe* negligibly cheaper
post #122 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

if history tells us anything, the amd will still be slower and *maybe* negligibly cheaper
If you are speaking of GPUs then one has to take into account NVAPI that exists in alot of those games. It in a number of software on my machine. With mantle to start, you can guarantee AMD will have the lead in those games.
post #123 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

if history tells us anything, the amd will still be slower and *maybe* negligibly cheaper
Slower than the Haswell chips yes but near sandy ipc and a reasonable gpu.
This chip will be best price perf especially if Hybrid CF picks up.

But no worries about the single core perf as Mantle is being adopted at a rapid pace.
Great that amd cpus and gpus will get a boost but Intel will also get the cpu boost.
post #124 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

If you are speaking of GPUs then one has to take into account NVAPI that exists in alot of those games. It in a number of software on my machine. With mantle to start, you can guarantee AMD will have the lead in those games.

i'm talking about cpus. intel is also putting a ton of emphasis on igpus right now, which probably doesn't bode well for amd
Edited by perfectblade - 12/10/13 at 10:39am
post #125 of 200
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Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

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Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

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Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And then you take into account other games and overclocking and you realize that the 9590 is still terrible value.

I mean as an enthusiast I want one at the current prices because I want to play with the thing and see if it can reach 8ghz but it's not a good price/performance chip for crying out loud. Especially for enthusiasts who can overclock their systems.

9590, sure. I would take an i7 at those prices. 9370, definitely not. $200 for one of those? I'll take that over an i5, please. The premium for an 8350 over an 8320 is roughly the same as a 9370 over an 8350. Not a bad deal at all, especially when you factor in the guaranteed ability to hit 4.7GHz stock. At worst, you spent extra and got an 8350 with a higher stock speed. At best, you get a several hundred megahertz higher overclock.

I'm not sure how to break this to you but...

With extremely rare exception, there isn't an 8350 on OCN that can't hit 4.7 with proper cooling. In fact, most hit 4.8 easy and if you aren't squeamish about voltage most can do 5.

Though $200 isn't bad... I've seen places selling the 8350 for that. But still, unless you just don't want to mess with OCing, it's like paying for a 3960x instead of a 3930k.

Thing is, if you look at THIS HERE THREAD, a lot of people with their Centurions are reporting that, even though they don't necessarily overclock much higher (if at all) than 8350s or even 20s, the same results can be achieved with lower voltages and therefore temperatures tend to stay lower. They are without a doubt better chips, but the motherboard, for example, can be a limitation at those speeds unless you're running a Sabertooth or Crosshair Formula V. The PSU shouldn't be one if you did it right, and the cooler shouldn't either, but they can limit the chip's potential. If you want 8GHz though, you'll need to talk to Alatar.

Unless you would like you point out specific people, no they don't. Not from what I read.

The "average" 8350 with proper motherboard (UD3/sabertooth or better) will hit 4.8 at 1.45-1.475v, and hit 5 at 1.5-1.55v. I see chips in that thread with higher VIDs than that. I see people complaining that at stock it's in the mid 50's under a full loop. Even my 8320 at 4.8/1.5v, with a 7990 in the loop (before the CPU no less), won't pass 52C.

I read through over half the thread (starting at the end), and saw maybe 4 or 5 OCs. None of them were out of line with what I see in the 8300 club on a regular basis, which I've been in for almost 14 months now and have been the OP of for at least 9.
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post #126 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I don't want it to come to AM3+, I would like to see AMD roll out a new socket and chipset with DDR4 and PCI-E 3.0 support.

Position it as their next generation to tech, start fresh, and really go after the market with their GCN 2.0, Mantle, and the new products.
I disagree. I think it would be best if AMD released a Steamroller FX chip with both DDR3 and DDR4 memory controllers, similar to the Socket AM2+ chips like the Phenom II which had a DDR2 and a DDR3 memory contoller. That way, anyone with a 990X/990FX motherboard could still upgrade their CPU to Steamroller cores, but those moving to a new platform/mobo could also buy these same chips and enjoy some additional performance out of them with DDR4 memory. If AMD did this, I think that would be a winning formula.
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post #127 of 200
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Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

As for professional apps and anything else that is demanding other than gaming, there is HSA/HUMA which is where Kaveri and Carrizo step in to rock the boat.p

AMD's own whitepaper for HSA specifies that CPU is meant for latency intensive tasks while GPU is for throughput. AMD is admitting that they still need a good CPU to go with that GPU for HSA. Not everything will run well on HSA and AMD has even shown us HSA examples that make little sense. Remember that JPEG decoding example where HSA was about twice as fast as Kaveri 2m/4 part when HSA was enabled? Do you know what else is twice as fast as a 2m/4c Steamroller part? A 4m/8 core CPU...
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Buy FM2+ with Kaveri and get hybrid cf and Mantle should get rid of the cpu bottleneck.
Steamroller should be quite good single threaded for non Mantle

if history tells us anything, the amd will still be slower and *maybe* negligibly cheaper

I can see you weren't around when AMD had the faster parts than Intel by a good margin.
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post #128 of 200
Quote:
All these discussion topics aside, we know that FX and AM3+ are here to stay for now. Even with criticism that AM3+ doesn't natively support PCI-e Gen3 interfaces (though the Gen2 x16 slots are often not fully saturated), it doesn't make sense to undergo a platform or chipset revamp right now.

DDR4 looms on the horizon. If AMD were to release a new platform implementing modern interfaces (and with it, a new line of boards), users upgrading would be caught in a "DDR trap." It makes more sense for AMD -- a company that has built a reputation around being the long-term support solution -- to wait until DDR4 has arrived, rather than do a small step-up before then for PCI-e & USB3.

Makes sense.
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post #129 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

AMD's own whitepaper for HSA specifies that CPU is meant for latency intensive tasks while GPU is for throughput. AMD is admitting that they still need a good CPU to go with that GPU for HSA. Not everything will run well on HSA and AMD has even shown us HSA examples that make little sense. Remember that JPEG decoding example where HSA was about twice as fast as Kaveri 2m/4 part when HSA was enabled? Do you know what else is twice as fast as a 2m/4c Steamroller part? A 4m/8 core CPU...

Well, that's kind of a different beast in itself. I am no fortune teller and I cannot guarantee HSA will be faster than just simply having more cpu cores.... but my speculation is that HSA/Huma provide no benefit to gaming yet, so AMD still needs an enthusiast gaming platform to hang in there until it does, and that is the FX line. With the next gen consoles having 8 cores and games becoming increasingly threaded (mantle or not), the vishera lineup can still hang in there (relatively speaking).

So while the FX vishera lineup is providing excellent bang for buck in the enthusiast/gaming market, the FM2+ platform will be taking over for the productivity/professional market. They are sort of switching their roles in my eyes.

But again, I have no idea if this is going to pan out well.... it's just how I see it panning out.
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post #130 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

AMD's own whitepaper for HSA specifies that CPU is meant for latency intensive tasks while GPU is for throughput. AMD is admitting that they still need a good CPU to go with that GPU for HSA. Not everything will run well on HSA and AMD has even shown us HSA examples that make little sense. Remember that JPEG decoding example where HSA was about twice as fast as Kaveri 2m/4 part when HSA was enabled? Do you know what else is twice as fast as a 2m/4c Steamroller part? A 4m/8 core CPU...
I can see you weren't around when AMD had the faster parts than Intel by a good margin.

Maybe. But would using the CPU alone be as power-efficient as CPU+GPU?
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