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post #281 of 328
I don't understand why everybody is complaining about the initial cost....

I buy CFLs because my local Wal Mart has 4 packs for something like $0.86.....
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post #282 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

We have had the choice for over a decade at this point.... and people still have not made the rational move.

i.e. Smoking is bad for people and provides very little positive benefit... yet people still choose to smoke even before they are addicted. Individual's choice but society has to pay so governments decided to make society better through regulation.

doh.gif
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post #283 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

I don't care how good of a point you made. This sentence is just too short-sighted for me to ingest mentally.

edit: yes I know I took it out of context. TBH it just jumped right out of context by itself from my point of view. Take no offense.

What's the point of a government? It depends.... but the enough citizens of the US have already agreed that the government should pass regulation. That's not a short-sighted.....
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post #284 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by schmotty View Post

I get it. A taxi costs less than a car payment up front, but taking a taxi 20 miles to work 5 days a week, would cost me more in the long term. You are missing my point. I like less pollution. I like less power consumption. I like more money in my wallet, now and later. But I want the choice to do these things, so it is my responsibility and I can take pride in knowing I'm a part.
We have had the choice for over a decade at this point.... and people still have not made the rational move.

i.e. Smoking is bad for people and provides very little positive benefit... yet people still choose to smoke even before they are addicted. Individual's choice but society has to pay so governments decided to make society better through regulation.

I disagree with that. People smoke for lots of reasons, relaxation (just like drinking alcohol, watching movies and playing games). Stress relief is difficult to measure but hugely beneficial.

I'm not suggesting smoking's stress relief out weighs the health hazards (one could make the same claim about alcohol) but that doesn't mean smoking has little or no benefit.

----

Back on topic. I've not been convinced by CFL's because so far in my personal experience they don't live up to the advertised hype, particularly in the longevity department when subjected to repeated on/off cycles (bathrooms, closets, etc)

Do most people know how to properly dispose of burned out or broken clfs? How many people just toss them in the garbage? granted this is speculation but I suspect that most people don't know how/where to properly recycle them and do just toss them in the garbage. At that point is dumping a bunch of mercury into landfills the rational move vs higher energy consumption?

If we really wanted to push an environmentally friendly light then the push should be fore LED (something that has been discussed on this thread)
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post #285 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbob06 View Post

I don't understand why everybody is complaining about the initial cost....

I buy CFLs because my local Wal Mart has 4 packs for something like $0.86.....

I don't think you are identifying the light bulb correctly. That is the price I've seen on packs of incandescent bulbs. I've never seen a four pack of CFLs cost less than $8 or so...not even at a Menards or Walmart/Sams Club.

This is why I don't like them. They cost a fortune and only last a few months before you have to replace them. Any savings on the electric bill are washed away two or three fold.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 1/10/14 at 1:42pm
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post #286 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

What's the point of a government? It depends.... but the enough citizens of the US have already agreed that the government should pass regulation. That's not a short-sighted.....

Well thank you for giving me the opportunity for clarification. Of course we agree that the government should pass regulation on things. My issue is more on what it is that the regulation entails, something the average citizen usually has almost no direct input on. As far as I can tell 99% of legislation goes through without most of us even knowing about it.

And you can't blame the citizen for this issue. Anything that is of a high enough profile to be discussed publicly is going to end up with a myriad of completely unrelated and politically motivated side-notes added on while the bill is being deliberated by congress and the senate. They call them "christmas tree" bills because everyone comes along and hangs a little piece of what they would benefit from onto it before it is agreed upon to pass.

Now I don't say we're completely without fault, but in order for these types of things to actually be noticeable or understandable enough for even a significant percentage of citizens to recognize, we would all probably have to gain the expertise of a law school graduate, and spend an unreasonable amount of time monitoring the day-to-day workings of congress.

So given that, where does it leave us? Basically unprepared and unconsidered. While I will do my best to avoid the moral paradoxes one faces when restricting the actions of their fellow citizens, I think a reasonable medium of assumption is that it should only be done as sparingly as possible, when the benefit is very obviously outweighing the detriment. I'm sure pointing out, as an example, the forgone premise that allowing cellphone carriers to prevent their customers from altering software on the devices which they own is not only acceptable, but that it is also acceptable to make it illegal for them to actually do so, is an example of a time when the benefit to the citizen was completely inconsequential.

Now that extreme doesn't really bear on this discussion, but this is where the short-sightedness I speak of comes in. Is this legislation in this case really, truly, going to benefit the society for being enacted? Well the answer is to be found in the environmental studies conducted by... um... let's see... does anybody really know who's study this is based on? Have you ever even tried to get a definitive answer when looking for the pros and cons of some environmentally-based proposal for regulation that weren't completely obvious to everyone to begin with?

As far as I can tell, environment and sustainability are, nowadays, just token political points that policy producers attach their agendas to when trying to add weight and momentum to whatever intention it is they are really seeking the resolution of. You get 1000 internets for reasonably explaining how this situation is the exception and not the rule.

My bottom line is that it is clear that this particular instance is only going to give the answers to the questions I ask of it here throughout the years of it's enactment. That is if the consequences of it aren't completely overstated, misrepresented, concealed, or otherwise doctored to fit the supposed benefit that it was championed to have. So excuse me if, for no other reason than sheer skepticism, I decide that something like this is not the type of thing that we are paying our officials to be spending their time on. "We" is of course not to include people who have paid them in ways that effectively nullify the concept of public service in the first place.

Of course this all might be avoided if we could manage to pass some regulation about the regulations themselves to prevent those who use them for benefits completely unrelated to the betterment of society. But of course there's nary a day in the history of government where an idea about regulating the regulators isn't met with anything more than complete and total resistance. I wonder why that is?
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post #287 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

I don't think you are identifying the light bulb correctly. That is the price I've seen on packs of incandescent bulbs. I've never seen a four pack of CFLs cost less than $8 or so...not even at a Menards or Walmart/Sams Club.

This is why I don't like them. They cost a fortune and only last a few months before you have to replace them. Any savings on the electric bill are washed away two or three fold.

home depot usually has 4 packs for $4 or so, but theres no way youre getting 4pk CFL for under a dollar. i remember years ago they were $.99 for a 4 pack due to a federal subsidy to get people to convert but i havent seen them that cheap in years.

i was actually just at home depot last night and they had a big display of LED bulbs with 40w equiv for 4.97 and 60w for 6.97. i grabbed 3 60w expecting them to be disappointingly dim compared to my 60w CFL i have throughout the house, boy was i wrong. 60w LED are significantly brighter then a 60w CFL. honestly at $7 a bulb it would probably cost less then $100 to convert your average house to LED, completely worth it in my opinion just for the extra brightness over CFL.
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post #288 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboMach1 View Post

home depot usually has 4 packs for $4 or so, but theres no way youre getting 4pk CFL for under a dollar. i remember years ago they were $.99 for a 4 pack due to a federal subsidy to get people to convert but i havent seen them that cheap in years.

i was actually just at home depot last night and they had a big display of LED bulbs with 40w equiv for 4.97 and 60w for 6.97. i grabbed 3 60w expecting them to be disappointingly dim compared to my 60w CFL i have throughout the house, boy was i wrong. 60w LED are significantly brighter then a 60w CFL. honestly at $7 a bulb it would probably cost less then $100 to convert your average house to LED, completely worth it in my opinion just for the extra brightness over CFL.

If you are looking for direct replacements I find that the CREE warm 60w @ HomeDepot are decent and dim well. I would replace all the lights in the house if it were not for the high startup level/low end.
 
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post #289 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanNEBTD View Post

If you are looking for direct replacements I find that the CREE warm 60w @ HomeDepot are decent and dim well. I would replace all the lights in the house if it were not for the high startup level/low end.

the cree 60w are the ones i bought. thumb.gif
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post #290 of 328
I actually just got home from Home Depot and I bought a pack of those myself...heh. I've been trying the higher cost name brands in hopes that they might last longer so I've been paying more for them lately. Looks like a $1 a bulb is about as cheap as they get, but $2 a bulb are more common. Prices might differ a bit by region too.

Let's hope these last.

Oh. this thread schooled me on that CFLs might have a warranty. Looks like most do, but you have to mail them off to some place. For the cost to ship it some where I am sure I could just buy a new one...probably two. If I was deeply worried about them going into the landfill I might do it...but it would not be cost effective for me and then I'd be polluting with more shipping materials anyway. I don't know if it would work to save up a bunch and mail them in since you also have send in the receipt and proof of purchase and they might not accept multiple bulbs at a time.

Has any one actually made good on a CFL warranty?
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