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post #11 of 15
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I didn't mean to bang Dreamweaver. It's a great program, but it's also one of the most commonly used programs with WYSIWYG. DeaDLocK and newphase have done a great job pointing this out.

I'm still not sure I can agree that WYSIWYG is faster and more efficient than hand coding to create quality work. People who are new to web design and only use WYSIWYG (no HTML knowledge) often create quite ugly (or "overcomplicate[d]" as Highly-Annoyed put it) layouts. People who hand code can get almost precisely what they want and how. Is faster work better than quality work? And I'm sure you're forgetting something: when hand coding I don't recode everything. It's a waste of time. Instead, I'll often copy tiny snippets of code from my previous works. I'm sure other's do the same, hence why there are so many video games, but many of them share the same engine (Havoc, anyone?)

I'm not saying WYSIWYG is entirely bad. It can be incredibly useful and efficient, and you can still create wonderful layouts with a combination of hand coding.
post #12 of 15
Now that's a nice and very true post: proprietary HTML editors suck, not only because of proprietary code (that can break sites itself), it often violates W3C recommendations -- especially FrontPage using ALL CAPS for XHTML.

I stick with HTML-KIT. It's free, has a zillion plugins to work not only XHTML, XML/XLST, PHP, ASP and other languages, and you can fashion your own templates to W3C and other standards (like for accessibility important sites). Sites now are too complicated for notepad, and equally it's not efficient.
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post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by newphase View Post
Am I wrong? Do most 'jobbing' design houses and webdevs use notepad?
A couple of years ago it was the status quo. Today, if you design by straight notepad anything more than a personal site, you're going to l-o-v-e Motrin.

Coding isn't getting anymore simplier, it's now moved to stylesheets (and modules), which is a pain in itself to code CSS for 7+ browsers.

Compliance isn't an option today, where a typo wasn't much to worry about 6 years ago (and who cared if code was lower or uppercase in HTML 3.2 or 4.1?). Now use caps and see the warnings the validators spit out! This is all due to because when XML comes more mainstream and replaces HTML and XHTML, ***one*** wrongly escaped or capitalized string could stop the entire page from loading. We're all going through a form of boot camp to ensure the site will load properly with this new format, double checking closing tags, keeping lower case syntax lower case, and ensuring the proper DOM is used -- no more trying to pass Transitional pages as Strict, deal.

Editors are now employed even by advanced coders because humans make mistakes much more than machines (and hard code [not style] is getting into the thousands of lines now, where 400 would've made a complex site in 1998).
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post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by version2 View Post
(I was going to post this in response to another thread, but I thought it would turn that topic to a tangent. This turned into a bit of a rant. Sorry.)

To anyone interested in creating their own website layouts: if you want to possibly continue with web design, and perhaps even venture into the world of web programming/development (which you may learn about when learning how to code web designs, so why not keep your options open?), I suggest you not listen to these Dreamweaver and FrontPage fanatics. Using such editors will not help you continue, and they cost money you probably don't have or are not willing to use.

I have yet to see a decent website coded in Dreamweaver (using WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get). I have yet to see a "not-very-good-but-still-better-than-some" website coded in Frontpage. There are many arguments for why Dreamweaver (WYSIWYG component) versus coding by hand, is better or worse. (Though I also have yet to encounter a professional/semi-professional web developer who uses WYSIWYG instead of coding by hand.)

Yes, Dreamweaver can be useful for coding by hand, but why spend money for a word processor with syntax highlighting and a few other gadgets when there are free programs such as Notepad++ among many others (your options are close to endless).

Why am I advocating people not to use Dreamweaver or other WYSIWYG programs? Because I don't like seeing really ugly websites, and I'm sure you don't either.

I may not be a skilled web designer, but I certainly know a lot more than others. I remember awhile back, I had a friend who loved using Dreamweaver. I tried convincing him at one point, and I gave up (he said to me, hand coding websites is "disgusting") At some point or another he realized that WYSIWYG really does suck, and was limiting him towards what he could do (I assume).
Very good point. I agree on the money part, and with so much features it also gets confusing, and then it ends up very ugly. I am not as good as you or others in coding, but I use the notepad for doing hand codes, html and etcetera. With a wide imagination, with html you can code almost anything you want and it will look the way you want it.
post #15 of 15
I use Visual Studio myself, but I am on the side that WYSIWYG editors are not that great. I use VS because it is a TOOL! It is useful when I want to have quick access to more complex coding like data-layer, user created modules, etc. that take more than a few lines of code to put together. Can't forget the simplicity of syntax highlighting as well. Also, they are great for debugging and error checking. WSIWYGs should not be relied on, but should not be tossed aside, that is just moronic. I do not use the WYSIWYG portion at all for layout, as they havent quite figured out CSS optimization just yet - in fact, I barely use the actual WYSIWYG interface at all, but the tools within the program are amazingly useful!

Granted VS is a bit expensive for most (I didn't pay for it, work did), but there are great tools out there for free as many have mentioned (I always recommend MS Visual Web Developer Express). No editor is the fix-all end-all of web development, that is for each user to decide, but to put aside a tool with so much power is ignorance in my view.
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