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post #2221 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickisfrench View Post

First post. Hi Overclock.net! Long time lurker here.

So this monitor having variable refresh rates using gsync... does this mean that if I'm scoring 45 fps the monitor syncs to 45hz refresh rate? Wouldn't that be blurtastic? I mean I can tell a huge difference immediately when I look at 60hz monitors now having been using 120hz since the first 3D vision capable lcd, samsung rz2233. Or do I have it wrong?

You're right.

When G-Sync is enabled you'll get exactly the motion blurring corresponding to the frame rate you have at an instant t.


For example:

45fps => 1000/45= 22.2 milliseconds of motion blur OR 22.2 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

60fps => 1000/60= 16.6 milliseconds of motion blur OR 16.6 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

90fps => 1000/90= 11.1 milliseconds of motion blur OR 11.1 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

120fps => 1000/120= 8.3 milliseconds of motion blur OR 8.3 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

144fps => 1000/144= 6.9 milliseconds of motion blur OR 6.9 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.



Perceived motion blur when tracking moving objects:

60fps 16.6 pixels of motion blur




120fps 8.3 pixels of motion blur



Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickisfrench View Post

Currently on my monitor even if my fps are lower the monitor is still running at 144hz, sure i'll get the side effects of such but I never notice blurring at all. What's the deal?

I'm not sure why you don't notice it at low frame rates.


You should be able to tell the difference quite easily on these tests:

(NOTE: Make sure you are using Chrome or Firefox and Aero is turned on)
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-marquee


Hope this helps and welcome to the forums. thumb.gif
Edited by Hasty - 3/22/14 at 5:37pm
post #2222 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasty View Post

You're right.

When G-Sync is enabled you'll get exactly the motion blurring corresponding to the frame rate you have at an instant t.


For example:

45fps => 1000/45= 22.2 milliseconds of motion blur OR 22.2 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

60fps => 1000/60= 16.6 milliseconds of motion blur OR 16.6 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

90fps => 1000/90= 11.1 milliseconds of motion blur OR 11.1 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

120fps => 1000/120= 8.3 milliseconds of motion blur OR 8.3 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.

144fps => 1000/144= 6.9 milliseconds of motion blur OR 6.9 pixels of motion blur when movement is 1000pixel/ second.



Perceived motion blur when tracking moving objects:

60fps 16.6 pixels of motion blur




120fps 8.3 pixels of motion blur

I'm not sure why you don't notice it at low frame rates.


You should be able to tell the difference quite easily on these tests:

(NOTE: Make sure you are using Chrome or Firefox and Aero is turned on)
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-marquee


Hope this helps and welcome to the forums. thumb.gif

sounds to me though, by your explanation, that this would occur currently on any monitor regardless of 120hz/144hz and regardless of having gsync, yeah? so even if my current vg278he is set to 144hz at 1080p and I get 45 fps in a scene in battlefield 4 i'd still be witnessing the perceived motion blur of 22.2 ms correct? simply, with gysnc, I wouldn't have the adverse affect of the micro stuttering from all the variations of frame rate jumping up and down. am I getting it now? smile.gif
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post #2223 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickisfrench View Post

sounds to me though, by your explanation, that this would occur currently on any monitor regardless of 120hz/144hz and regardless of having gsync, yeah? so even if my current vg278he is set to 144hz at 1080p and I get 45 fps in a scene in battlefield 4 i'd still be witnessing the perceived motion blur of 22.2 ms correct? simply, with gysnc, I wouldn't have the adverse affect of the micro stuttering from all the variations of frame rate jumping up and down. am I getting it now? smile.gif
That's correct.
I don't have a G-Sync module to test but in all logic it should be something like this.

If you have an average frame rate of 60fps with min fps 40 and max fps 80, G-Sync should feel close to a perfectly stable 60fps V-synced. With the added bonus of low input lag. This will be pretty useful for high demanding games that you just want to run at max settings for eye candy.



This is how G-Sync removes the stuttering in that situation:

Imagine you are tracking a moving object with your eyes. And that object has a constant speed. You expect it to be at each frame your monitor display at the correct place.
Like this: graph on the left

(The graph on the left is what a stable v-sync provides)


But here is what happens if the frame rate is fluctuating below the refresh rate:
graph on the right

(the graph on the right is like v-sync off with a frame rate fluctuating below the refresh rate)


Now what G-Sync does is making the monitor start displaying the frame as soon as it gets it from your graphic card. So the moving object is always at the correct spot.
Like this:



And like Cyro999 said the motion blur will be variable throughout.

Edit: One more thing I would like to mention is that having higher frame rates not only have the effect of reducing motion blur, but also greatly enhance the feeling of fluidity of the motion. And in that regard 45fps is very low.
Edited by Hasty - 3/22/14 at 9:52pm
post #2224 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amperial View Post

What about 4k?

Other than that.. 4k on 120hz / 144hz would be indeed insane.

I'm not sure but i think the issue here is bandwidth, i dont think theres a connection capable of 120hz at 4k yet..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubed Up Slug View Post


Anandtech:
And most graphics cards only have 1 display port output, so you can't use more than one of these.

To be fair thats more an issue with graphics cards than the tech, I'm sure multi display port cards for GSync surround (when it happens or before) are coming...

And Hasty thanks for all that info... I already know going into this i aint going to get 60fps in most games with my current setup, but its about the future wink.gif I'm planning to go for an 880 or so hopefully when they come out, provided the benchmarks justify it.

-edit- or not, was wrong, Was Borderlands, not Bioshock...

GTX 770 SLI might be another option of course
Edited by KenjiS - 3/22/14 at 11:00pm
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post #2225 of 8206
Question about 120Hz monitors. You guys know about the "Soap Opera effect" that you get from high refresh rate TVs that have TrueMotion ClearMotion BlahBlhaMotion? Is this present in 120Hz computer monitors?

If I get this monitor, will my movies and videos start looking like that?
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post #2226 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Question about 120Hz monitors. You guys know about the "Soap Opera effect" that you get from high refresh rate TVs that have TrueMotion ClearMotion BlahBlhaMotion? Is this present in 120Hz computer monitors?

If I get this monitor, will my movies and videos start looking like that?

No. Theres a difference between truemotion, clearmotion and etc "fake" refresh rates and actual refresh rates

Truemotion et all use frame interpolation to basically "make crap up" to fit in between frames and "smooth out" motion, it adds the soap opera effect AND some weird artifacting if its done wrong on certain scenes, Then manufacturers slap big numbers on there becuase to marketing executives big numbers = people buy

a 120hz monitor simply refreshes 120 times a second, it just shows whatever its fed.. it will be smooth yes, but not "unnaturally" I'd say.. Could be wrong just going on my experience with TVs
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post #2227 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Question about 120Hz monitors. You guys know about the "Soap Opera effect" that you get from high refresh rate TVs that have TrueMotion ClearMotion BlahBlhaMotion? Is this present in 120Hz computer monitors?

If I get this monitor, will my movies and videos start looking like that?
Movies will maintain their native framerate, though I suppose interpolation could be done if you like that look and your video player supports it. Games will be much smoother and feel better.
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post #2228 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

Question about 120Hz monitors. You guys know about the "Soap Opera effect" that you get from high refresh rate TVs that have TrueMotion ClearMotion BlahBlhaMotion? Is this present in 120Hz computer monitors?

If I get this monitor, will my movies and videos start looking like that?

No that won't happen.


The movies are typically at around 24fps. The monitor will just repeat each frames.

For example:
If the monitor's refresh rate is set to 144Hz, it will repeat 144/24 = 6 times the frame.
Thus it will look the way the director wanted it to. No soap opera effect.



Videos on youtube are typically at around 30fps. In the same way the monitor will repeat each frames.

For example:
If the monitor's refresh rate is set to 120Hz, it will repeat 120/30 = 4 times the frame.



NOTE:
When watching videos you will have to make sure you're not using ULMB mode. Or you would get the "multiple image" artifact. Basically when there is motion in the video/movie you would see the moving objects having duplicates.
It would look like this:

This is just an illustration of a double and a triple image artifact. Not an actual photo. But It gives you an idea of what you would get.
There would be one duplicate per strobe happening during one frame of the video.

For example:
-Double image effect at half the frame rate of the refresh rate
-Triple image effect at third the frame rate of the refresh rate
-Quad image effect at quarter the frame rate of the refresh rate
And so on...



I would like to mention that for people that actually use motion interpolation programs on their computer, it solves the multiple image artifact. Since the frame rate is then equal to the strobe rate.

There is a good program to achieve it. It's called SVP (Smooth Video Project)
Some members of overclock.net made a handy guide to set it up.
Head here for info: http://www.overclock.net/t/1385468/svp-smooth-video-project-discussion-thread

I can attest that using this on a 120Hz display with low persistence can make animation, sport or adult entertainment videos feel "lifelike".
There are of course some artifacts due to the motion interpolation algorithms (some videos work better and some worse) but it's worth the time fiddling around.
thumb.gif
Edited by Hasty - 3/22/14 at 11:59pm
post #2229 of 8206
Hopefully g-sync can be used to output 24p video St 24 or 48 fps. That would be a neat added benefit.
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post #2230 of 8206
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeThruHead View Post

Hopefully g-sync can be used to output 24p video St 24 or 48 fps. That would be a neat added benefit.
Unfortunately G-Sync can't operate below 30Hz. So that won't be possible.
It might work for 48fps, 60fps, ... videos/movies though. And that sure would be pretty neat!
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