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Picking out fans gaming rig that are quiet when turned down but still push good air. - Page 7

post #61 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

I just spit my coffee all over my keyboard when I read that. If you have ever worked with both, you know the Midi R2 is actually beyond a "massive" improvement over the C70 in every conceivable way. There is such an incredible difference in build quality alone, that I don't even know what to say....

The Enthoo is certainly a massive improvement, especially of you are water cooling.

The Arc Midi R2 doesn't have four 5.25" bays so it's out for him, he'd need to buy a Arc XL which has a plastic front panel too.

The biggest improvement of Arc Midi R2 over Vengeance C70 is the HDD cages aren't so restrictive and it can mount 140mm fans (thus 280 rad), filters, the 3 fluid dynamic bearing fans that come with the case (instead of sleeve), plus the added allowed heat-sink height from having 140mm fans in front/rear. There's other little bits such as the power supply vibration mounting, slightly thicker panels, etc. As far as cooling though, the main thing is six 140mm fans are not a massive step up from five 120s and four 140s (that doesn't even include pull fans on HDD cages). The 140mm side panel fans and extra 120mm bottom fan alone would make up the difference. The main reason why the Vengeance C70 is so terrible at stock is the weak sleeve bearing 120mm fans are mounted in pull on the restrictive HDD cage.

It doesn't fix the OP's other issue with the fans being offset from the mesh either...

Would I shell out $140 for a Vengeance C70 new today? No , it's worth ~$80-90 IMO , plus it's a 2012 case and the Arc Midi R2 is a 2013 case. But it isn't as horrific as the OP makes it out to be. If it wasn't any good Antec wouldn't make a M1100 or GX700 case.


OP:

The only manufacturers that don't use much plastic are Silverstone and Lian Li. Lian Li isn't exactly cutting edge as far as building goes, most cases don't have cable routing and aren't powder coated inside.

NZXT/Cooler Master/Bitfenix/In Win/Azza/Antec/Enermax/Xigmatek/Raidmax/Apevia/etc are going to offer you basically the same thing as a C70 (H630 is an exception in that the case outside is steel).

I'd help you find a case but you have a laundry list of vague requirements ("cheapo shortcuts" headscratch.gif) that aren't easily satisfied and I haven't used 500 computer cases with four or more 5.25" bays (I use midtowers) to be able to help you with the finer details of things like how the case fascia clips into the frame. Most people are just happy with a sturdy case that has fan mounts, HDD cages, grommets, watercooling mounts, and air flow.

I can see the offset on fan mounting holes is because of two reasons: One: to leave clearance for the fan hub (manufacturing tolerance) and two: to avoid having a screw head that sticks out the panel. Also if the fan is right up against the mesh there's more likely to be airflow noise.

Four 5.25" bays is more or less between a mid-tower and Full tower. If that was a requirement for a case you should have never bought a Corsair C70. Somehow this thread went from fans to ranting about the Corsair Vengeance C70 which is unfair to Corsair since you could have returned it , it's not like their case came with scratched panels (if it did their support would handle it) and broken HDD mounts: you just didn't anticipate that you wouldn't like it. You would have had the same issue with the award-winning Silverstone FT-02, Corsair Obsidian 750D, Fractal Design Arc Midi R2, NZXT Source 530, or Cooler Master 690 III too. In engineering we call that changing the design requirements / "scope of work" after work has been approved.

Your best is visiting a Microcenter or some other place that has cases unboxed and lined up on a shelf.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.
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post #62 of 66
Thread Starter 
I was actually considering the FT01, but someone in another thread told me the cooling his horrible and only cools a corner of the motherboard. Is that true?

About cases and their front fans... I really don't understand why the requirements I'm looking for are so strict. I don't get it. Why would such a nice case need a plastic assembly for the front fans when it makes far more sense to just screw them into the front of the frame? More specifically between the drive cage and the frame. That way, if you remove the drive cage you can install a thicker heavier fan that'll give you much better cooling and less dBA when compared to a 120x25mm, if both are compared while running at say.. 1000RPM. To me it just seems like that's the most functional, most durable, efficient, financially responsible way to design the front of a case. Instead of spending money on some convoluted unnecessary plastic assembly with clips that can break, that restricts a customer's choice in fan width, just cut holes in the front. I don't understand why that isn't the first choice when designing a case. It just seems like a no brainier to me. Why bother with a plastic assembly? What's the point of it? I've had two cases with that, and I hated both of them. They were a pain to work with because they limited what I was allowed to use, the clips were hard to undo and I was afraid of pulling to hard and breaking them, the clip on one broke, and the other one made noise with every fan I put in it. I even got a nice smooth higher end fan for it and it still made noise.

And why are all the case manufacturers finding every way they can to limit the thickness of 120mm fans to 25mm, by limiting the space they fit into? I've been looking at TONS of pictures and I'm seeing this with every case. The only ones I know that don't do that is the Silverstone PS09, an old plastic crap case I threw out years back, some Dell cases I've seen replacement parts for (while fan shopping), and server chassis I've seen pictures of.

I get it, I probably won't find anything that allows a 120x38. I'm just kind of mulling over it now and it just makes me angry case companies are doing that. I think they're doing it because none of them sell 120x36 or 120x38, and want customers to use THEIR fans.

Alternatively, something that has other great cooling options like on the bottom and side panel(s) would work great... as long as it works with my build and is actually built and designed correctly. I'll be overclocking the video card, CPU, and RAM. I'd definitely need something under the video card. Two problem I keep seeing with every case I look at though. The first is raised fan holes that breach the fan's seal against the surface its mounted against, which is much worse when there's a filter. I don't understand why so many companies are doing this and its pissing me off. The other problem is non standard fan sizes, especially ones that fit strangely, that make it difficult to replace a fan if its not powerful enough or if it goes bad (especially if the warranty is over and it dies).

Seriously, who's designing these things?

Luckily I have a old beat up Silverstone TJ05 that can hold me over till I find a case. Its in pieces though and in pretty rough condition.
Edited by Drahadis - 1/6/14 at 12:39am
post #63 of 66
Thread Starter 
I found a local store that sells cases... they're a half hour away, but its better than driving all the way to Microcenter:
http://www.2000netcomputers.com/cases/

Let me know what you guys think of their selection, keeping in mind that the CPU cooler I have is 160mm (NH-D14). The Corsair C70 is 9.3" wide and it barely had enough room for my cooler. I think about 7 or 8 mm of space left from the window or so. And the Video card I ordered is L=292mm W=129mm H=43mm.

The 1100 looks interesting but I don't want an LED fan. >.> I'm wondering if the LED can be turned off. The Lanboy Air looks interesting, but I don't trust the width. Its almost half an inch thinner than the C70 I'm returning, and that case barely fit the cooler I bought. Does anyone know much about that case?

I'm going there tomorrow late afternoon probably.
post #64 of 66
You should look at Caselabs or some other $300+ boutique case builder too.

http://www.caselabs-store.com/merlin-sm5-case/
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post #65 of 66
Often you just have to settle for a case with the fewest amount of "what where they thinking?" designs to it, unless you want to spend like $300+. I have an Arc Midi (first gen) and those front fan clips have annoyed the heck out of me. Looking at the R2, though, it looks like they got rid of those clips and now have 120/140mm mounting holes for direct mount(?), but it only has two front bays so.. My case also has the issue of the floor fan mount not sealing entirely, and I wound up using mortite caulk on it. Not ideal, though.

The requirement of four front bays limits things a bit, since more than three bays is becoming rarer, even in full size cases. A couple Bitfenix cases come to mind: the Shinobi XL and the Raider. Bitfenix aren't exactly premium, but they're respectable and seem to be one of the few remaining companies that really cares about desktop rigbuilding at value-oriented prices.

Bitfnenix Shinobi XL. pros: 5 bays, decent fan options, rear fan mount takes both 120 and 140mm (I like seeing this, as 140mm make good exhaust imo), removable drive bay, included filters, offset front intake vents (not sure how restrictive it is, though), relatively conservative style. Cons: Drive bay isn't modular--though it can be rotated, and of course there are always the hidden little annoyances you only discover when you get it. I have seen this case in person, but never built a rig in one. Around $150 from Amazon. Hardware Canucks review.(Canucks does some of the better case reviews imo)

Then there is the Bitfenix Raider, which seems rather similar though a tad less refined, but has modular drive bays. Hardware Canucks review..not exactly glowing, though..

Just don't expect Lian-Li level fit and finish for a full size case at those prices. Ultimately, you likely won't find a case you find perfect, but hopefully you'll find one that doesn't anger you too much. Try to get to a store locally to look at cases if you can, though that can be difficult (edit:looks like you may have found one). When it comes to cases, you can only really trust your own experience. edit: if you can live with three bays instead of four, the options grow hugely.
Edited by Otterclock - 1/6/14 at 10:58am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k@4.5ghz 1.21v Gigabyte Sniper M3 Sapphire 6950 Samsung 8g1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 830 Samsung F1 500 Crucial M4 64 (SRC) cpu:Noc NF-F12 / case:4x TY-141/gpu: 2x NB-Multi 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Venomous X, Accelero TT Win 7 64 Acer X213H Saitek Eclipse 
PowerCaseMouse
Superflower 650 plat Fractal Arc Midi G500 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k@4.5ghz 1.21v Gigabyte Sniper M3 Sapphire 6950 Samsung 8g1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 830 Samsung F1 500 Crucial M4 64 (SRC) cpu:Noc NF-F12 / case:4x TY-141/gpu: 2x NB-Multi 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Venomous X, Accelero TT Win 7 64 Acer X213H Saitek Eclipse 
PowerCaseMouse
Superflower 650 plat Fractal Arc Midi G500 
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post #66 of 66
Thread Starter 
I bought a Coolermaster 922 HAF.
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