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Why you might not want to buy a Corsair RM PSU - Page 13

post #121 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post

Not so much in a stealth way. I don't expect you to go back and re-read this long thread, so I'll summarize.

As I explained to shilka:

The problem with the 750W and 850W affected all units made up until that point. That problem could seriously effect users, so Corsair made an announcement of the problem, fixed it and said they'd replace any units in that particular batch with newer units..

The problem with the 450~650W was limited to PVT samples, some of which were used for reviews and the issue was spotted by two reviewers (including Oklahoma Wolf). By the time those reviews went live, the issue was addressed before the first container even shipped out.

Finally someone that is highly reputable is here to set things straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post

Since it was something only spotted by two reviewers and not made a big issue out of (until this thread, of course), there was no need to throw up a bunch of red flags and panic users

Exactly, people take this thread as fact and spread it like wildfire all over the forum without doing research and cause people to return perfectly fine PSU units. So glad you posted here with the correct facts.
post #122 of 649

man oh man we have the whole corsar gang here

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post #123 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

You're right. Shouldn't the reviewers update their reviews though? In order to let the end users know that the issue does not affect retail units and such. The reviews alone count as red flags.

Yep. And I'm sure Corsair would send them out. The problem is, from my stand point, the reviewer has to spend a bunch of time tearing the PSU apart just to amend the review to prove a point to a relatively small audience. There's not a lot of revenue for the website in doing that.
post #124 of 649
Still, the reviewer shouldn't do the QC. The FACTORY DOES! If the PV sample goes out with that problem it is a bad sign.
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post #125 of 649
A simple edit to the existing review, pointing out that Corsair claims to have fixed the problem on non-review units should be enough. Right now there are articles on 2 of the biggest sites that do PSU reviews which point out issues that should be non-existent in retail units... now, that can't be a good thing, right?

This hurts Corsair's reputation for no reason. Due to both the review score being affected and the negative feedback from places like this one.
post #126 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post

The problem with the 450~650W was limited to PVT samples, some of which were used for reviews and the issue was spotted by two reviewers (including Oklahoma Wolf). By the time those reviews went live, the issue was addressed before the first container even shipped out.

In this case, if true that only PVT samples had this issue with the 5v, this was a completely self inflicted gunshot and could easily be fixed in future by sending retail samples out to reviewers. Ironically, this would be completely the opposite reason I have suggested sending such retail product before...but in this case perhaps more immediately damaging to the reputation (?) than the reason I have suggested.
Edited by [Spectre] - 1/26/14 at 8:25am
post #127 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Spectre] View Post

In this case, if true that only PVT samples had this issue with the 5v, this was a completely self inflicted gunshot and could easily be fixed in future by sending retail samples out to reviewers. Ironically, this would be completely the opposite reason I have suggested sending such retail product before...but in this case perhaps more immediately damaging to the reputation (?) than the reason I have suggested.
And also by saying it's a PVT sample is a bit of a leap of faith. Some people might think of it as a cherry picked sample
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post #128 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post


Lastly the ugly part. Oh, and it IS ugly.
Here we have it. A Corsair representative criticizing the approach of a user who does all this in order to help people. The comment about 10mv of difference in ripple being useless in real world scenarios really ticked me off here. It's hypocrisy in all its glory.

For years, and I mean years, I've been listening of how superb are some power supplies (from Corsair and other companies) by using a "single power rail" and by "exceeding the ATX specification by 40%". It's advertised all over most reviews and the packaging of most products. And suddenly, after 10+ years of using those claims (that make no difference in real world scenarios by the way) Corsair decides that since someone else is doing it, but against them this time, it's useless.

Who do you think you're talking to? Someone mentally disabled or something? Is that the opinion you have about this community you previously claimed to have "higher hopes" of?
Well, you should get your facts straight. The community doesn't need your hopes. YOU need the community. Not the other way around. It's that simple.

Let's be frank. We make high end units with the best ripple and noise control in the world because that's what reviewers expect. What they test for. It may sound cynical, but we've been making power supplies for 8 years now, and the industry has changed dramatically.

In 2006 when we started, there were lots of shoddy products out there. Lots and lots of REALLY bad stuff, rated at peak, or just outright lies on the box.

In 2010 when we launched our AX series, the Gold certified market was taking off significantly and the "80 PLUS" rating became synonymous with quality in a lot of people's minds, though reviewers know it's only tied to efficiency, it became the single determining factor for most customers as to whether a power supply was "good" or not. Even now, I see people make that mistake. There are plenty of very decent Bronze certified units that get overlooked for questionable Gold certified units every day.

So if I seem like I'm making excuses, I apologize. It was not my intent. My intent was to point out that there are plenty of reasons to choose a brand besides reviews. If somebody came to me and said "Look, I want to buy a Corsair power supply, but this power supply from your competitor is on sale and a great deal this week", and I knew the product was solid and the company had good support, I'd recommend them. Before Corsair made PSUs I personally used Antec, Silverstone, and Seasonic products in most of my stuff. And though I'm exclusively Corsair now (employee discount can't be beat), if somebody were able to find a great deal on a good competing product, I'd have no problem with that.

Does 30mV vs. 40mV ripple really matter? It's insanely tough to test for. It probably makes no difference to most users. It might affect super high-end overclockers or something, the guys doing LN2 benching. I've seen Jake switch out PSUs and get an extra few hundred MHz on the CPU, and it's sometimes inexplicable what affects those guys.

So if I came across condescending, I apologize. It was not my intent. My intent is to have well-educated and mature discussion, and I felt it was time we chimed in here to let people know that some of the facts that have been mentioned here are incorrect or outdated.
post #129 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

Let's be frank. We make high end units with the best ripple and noise control in the world because that's what reviewers expect. What they test for. It may sound cynical, but we've been making power supplies for 8 years now, and the industry has changed dramatically.

In 2006 when we started, there were lots of shoddy products out there. Lots and lots of REALLY bad stuff, rated at peak, or just outright lies on the box.

In 2010 when we launched our AX series, the Gold certified market was taking off significantly and the "80 PLUS" rating became synonymous with quality in a lot of people's minds, though reviewers know it's only tied to efficiency, it became the single determining factor for most customers as to whether a power supply was "good" or not. Even now, I see people make that mistake. There are plenty of very decent Bronze certified units that get overlooked for questionable Gold certified units every day.

So if I seem like I'm making excuses, I apologize. It was not my intent. My intent was to point out that there are plenty of reasons to choose a brand besides reviews. If somebody came to me and said "Look, I want to buy a Corsair power supply, but this power supply from your competitor is on sale and a great deal this week", and I knew the product was solid and the company had good support, I'd recommend them. Before Corsair made PSUs I personally used Antec, Silverstone, and Seasonic products in most of my stuff. And though I'm exclusively Corsair now (employee discount can't be beat), if somebody were able to find a great deal on a good competing product, I'd have no problem with that.

Does 30mV vs. 40mV ripple really matter? It's insanely tough to test for. It probably makes no difference to most users. It might affect super high-end overclockers or something, the guys doing LN2 benching. I've seen Jake switch out PSUs and get an extra few hundred MHz on the CPU, and it's sometimes inexplicable what affects those guys.

So if I came across condescending, I apologize. It was not my intent. My intent is to have well-educated and mature discussion, and I felt it was time we chimed in here to let people know that some of the facts that have been mentioned here are incorrect or outdated.
That's not considering that Seasonic makes the same exact PSU (AX) and has the same problems and same performance. Oh sure.

In 2006 there were proper PSUs back then.

And seasonic launched their X-series which are the same damn PSUs

Do you know that 30mV to 40mV is a stark 30% difference? Besides any proper oscilloscope can let you see even a mV of ripple. Don't even talk about 40mV
Taking opinions from a employee is like shooting yourself. Any company will attempt to glorify one's products and the way the work but the line is crossed when a employee attempts to "dissonify" one's comments on a product. Shilka's comments have been right and I have been following PSUs for a long time and I AM a analog & power electronics expert

There never was a point on this thread where it wasn't mature. Do we have kids going on about how Corsair products are garbage? Nah.
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post #130 of 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

Does 30mV vs. 40mV ripple really matter? It's insanely tough to test for. It probably makes no difference to most users. It might affect super high-end overclockers or something, the guys doing LN2 benching. I've seen Jake switch out PSUs and get an extra few hundred MHz on the CPU, and it's sometimes inexplicable what affects those guys.

For the record, it doesn't really matter in non extreme scenarios. Transistors used on overclocking boards can take the "heat". Even if the power supply is garbage that delivers something like 15 or 8 volts on the EPS connector those transistors have so wide input voltage range that they'll just work. More or less in a similar way an active PFC power supply works in the 100-240VAC range. The capacitors on these boards are usually more than capable of decreasing ripple, sometimes even if it's well above the ATX limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

So if I came across condescending, I apologize. It was not my intent. My intent is to have well-educated and mature discussion, and I felt it was time we chimed in here to let people know that some of the facts that have been mentioned here are incorrect or outdated.

Well, if you took the time to notify the crowd about the reviewed samples not affecting retail in the first place then I wouldn't mention the problem at all. I should note here that the review on Jonny's page is the major offender here. From what I understand Jonny is part of Corsair, yet the info on the review covering one of your products on his site is outdated and involves an issue that you reportedly fixed. Who's at fault here? It's not some random review on a page you have no affiliation with. That's bad practice.

Anyway, some of the other considerations are still valid. More often than not, the competition has better price/component/performance ratio than Corsair lately.

I guess I should also mention the thing with "single rail" units again since the previous question I did about it was ignored. Is Corsair going out of the "single rail" wagon any time soon? The only companies I am aware of that have a major selection of PSUs with proper over-current protection are Enermax and Antec. Now if the likes of Corsair join in and ditch that dangerous "single rail" marketing scheme people are going to listen.

Other than that, apology accepted. The comment about how messy the power supply industry was back in the 2000s is also correct. But that was mostly because the internet was not so widely used back then and the masses had no way to tell what was good and what was garbage.

Lastly, I should note that my intention is not to bash Corsair or anything. My only intention is to offer constructive criticism.
Edited by PsyM4n - 1/26/14 at 9:29am
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