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Fans and Rads, I am confused.

7K views 199 replies 15 participants last post by  absolutelymods 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,
This is my second post and in a few words, I have decided to jump totally into the deep end and do what I do best, get myself into trouble. I have decided to build.... or at least try to build a high end custom cooled build. After a heap of research and reading, I have managed to devise a list of parts and components I want to include in the build.
I won't go through that in this thread as it's for cooling suffice it to say I have purchased a couple of D5/MCP655 pumps and a couple of Bitspower Pump Kits with a Dual Mod Top. I intent to run a dual pump config with the 1 loop, cooling the CPU, Mother Board, RAM, GPU and Aquaero 6. I think I should be OK with the 1 loop, I hope anyway.
So my dilemma now is the radiators and the fans. I should mention I am going with the Case Labs Magnum STH10 or TH10. I think however it will be the latter, only because of the space limitations in the STH10. So anyhow, I have heard and have been told that as a beginner I should be concentrating on using 120mm fans. This would mean that 140s would be a more complicated set up. Great, so if that is truly the case, I would like to go with 140mm fans.
My intention would be to run 2x560mm rads and another rad probably a 420. I would really ove the build silent and powerful and this is where I get stuck.
I would love to have push pull on the 560s but have heard that will make it louder. Would anyone be able to help me with my choice. I have been looking at the NoiseBlocker Black Silent Pros and ELoop but also the Noctua, but when it came to the rads, I really got stuck.
So can anyone suggest a fan and rad combination that is going to be well and truly quiet with great performance. Not to sound like a hero, but I really don't have a budget in mind, as long as they are not ridiculously priced, that's OK.
I am ultimately wanting to over clock the hell out of the system and soon will post my specs on the site.
I hope someone can help me out, it's great to be here.Now I hope you guys don't laugh too hard but I have decided to start a channel that explains the build and the parts al from a beginners perspective. I figure You Tube was my go to guide to this at the start so why not do something from my perspective. Anyway the reason I am leaving a link is not for points, subscribers and likes, but so you can see my proposed specs on the machine. Also any advice you may like to give me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHxONHqrF3g

As I said, please don't laugh too hard as I have no and I mean absolutely no video editing experience and recording from a DSLR. I am pretty good as a photographer but learned that video is a whole new ball game.
 
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#2 ·
With a massive cooling surface like that I often wonder why people don't just use low cost low speed fans. 8 on each rad and leave it at that. At low speeds there is little difference between fans, its really only at higher speeds that high cost fans are much better for noise.
Two giant rads or more with <1000rpm fans just running at fixed speed. Unless you plan on using 3+ gpus its a lot of cooling at very low noise and simple to build.
 
#4 ·
I will add, if you are really intent on having 2 x 560 and a 420, you may want to go with the TH10, as the STH10 will become cramped fast. The upper chambers fit 480s much better than any 140mm variant. You can shoe horn them in there, but there is a size difference between upper and lower chambers. Don't forget about your psu too. You could put a 560 and 420 in lower chamber, leaving room for the psu to fit. Your gonna need to use flex bays for the additional HDD as well. The 1x0 x 4 rads take up flex bay space in the chambers too.
If you get a flex bay rad mount, up to 120.3 fits easy, go to a 120.4 and you have to take the front end apart to remove/install it.

I agree with Jakusonfire on the fans. No need for push/pull really with that much rad space.
 
#5 ·
Perhaps you might want to check out this site: http://martinsliquidlab.org/

Martin does a great job with his radiator round up. There you can get a much better understanding of what radiator might suit you best. Once your get that understanding choosing the right fan for your needs will be better. With the components your talking about and planning. Sounds like an easy $5000 build. Make sure to make it EPIC. Good Luck.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaQ View Post

I will add, if you are really intent on having 2 x 560 and a 420, you may want to go with the TH10, as the STH10 will become cramped fast.

I agree with Jakusonfire on the fans. No need for push/pull really with that much rad space.
Yes I hear you, I completely agree with the case change. My initial choice was the TH10 but was a bit hesitant about the dual front face. really wanted sleek and simple not too big like the STH10 but the specs I have provided do not reflect such a case. It really will have to be the TH10. TBH I am not that intent on having the 560 x 2 and a 420, I just really want to use 140s and have an extremely reliable, well cooled, fast and amazing looking PC. I am open to suggestion. As a beginner I have been bombarded with info and from what I have read, the bigger the rad, or should I say the surface area, the better the system. Obviously this would depend on what it is I plan on cooling and with my specs, seems like a lot. Water blocks and so on would be for a different section but I am deciding on whether to cool my ram or not??

Sorry to be a pain but you mentioned you agreed with Jakusonfire. I am a little confused. He says "I often wonder why people don't just use low cost low speed fans. 8 on each rad and leave it at that" I took this to mean on a 560 4 on the font and 4 on the back, push pull. Then you mention push pull is not worth it. Can you explain what this means.

Thanks
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustacap22 View Post

Sounds like an easy $5000 build. Make sure to make it EPIC. Good Luck.
Hey there, thanks for replying, you're not wrong about the price. TBH I have only just bought some fittings a pump and some other small cooling stuff, and have spent 1k. By the time i get the rads, fans etc, etc, there is another 2 - 3k. The build I am too scared to tally up, my wife may in fact draw up papers lol.

So in your post you mentioned to make it Epic, what does this mean exactly?? NooB question 1.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

Hey there, thanks for replying, you're not wrong about the price. TBH I have only just bought some fittings a pump and some other small cooling stuff, and have spent 1k. By the time i get the rads, fans etc, etc, there is another 2 - 3k. The build I am too scared to tally up, my wife may in fact draw up papers lol.

So in your post you mentioned to make it Epic, what does this mean exactly?? NooB question 1.
Oh yes, I know about the cost as I built my RIG in early April 2013. Had to get some parts delivered to my work so wife wouldn't get wind of the cost. Plus paying by Paypal definitely helps when hiding money spent from your significant other....

Just take a look at some of the build here on OCN. Yes, there are those builds that are GOOD, GREAT, AND WOW. FOR ME....EPIC BUILDS are those that make you say " GET THE F.....OUT OF HERE. You know what I mean.....Here's a better example....Hope your a football fan. I live in Michigan and when the Ford's built FORD Field for the Lions....I was like. WOW....this place is fabulous. Then, I had the opportunity to see a game in the brand new Jerry Jones World of Cowboys Stadium. That was EPIC. I was like..."GET the F....OUT OF HERE....Hope my analogy cleared it up for you.....
 
#10 ·
I'd use Alphacool 140mm x 420s or 560s with single Phanteks 140SP's (not push / pull).
,
I have a XT420 + UT280 and just 5 phanteks 1200 rpm fans, 4770k at 4.6 Ghz and twin 780s OC'd at 25+% ..... Delta T is 8.4C under Furmark. I had planned on push / pull but at 8.4C why bother ? I should note that if I add the fan screen / filter on top, I climb to about 12C but I'll be modding that for more air flow shortly. At 1200 rpm with the single fans, GFX cards are at 39C under Furmark, CPU peaks at 74C at 46 multiplier / 46 cache ration under BIOS 0804 on the M6F .... 1102 is running lil hotter

What are you putting in there ?..... if it's anything less than or equal to the 800 watts of heat my two cards, MoBo, CPU and Pump add to the loop, I see no reason for a Case Labs case..... an Enthoo Primo fits a 480 Monsta, a 240 and a 420 (or another 480) quite easily for a lot less cost, a lot less space and a very easy 1st water loop build.

Doing 4 290x's yea, get the Case Labs and all those rads.....but w/ two 780's or 780 Tis, MoBo block, double pump (i.e. 35x2) no need for anything more than 5 or 6 x 140mm and single 1200rpm Phanteks fans for a delta T of 10C or less.....and if ya do fins ya need more cooling, can always add the 2nd set of fans.

And yes... money adds up.....I'm into current build for about $6,500

Wanna see an EPIC build.... look at Darlene's Stretch build

http://www.overclock.net/t/1326148/nzxt-phantom-820-stretched-limo-edition-build-log/810
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustacap22 View Post

Oh yes, I know about the cost as I built my RIG in early April 2013. Had to get some parts delivered to my work so wife wouldn't get wind of the cost. Plus paying by Paypal definitely helps when hiding money spent from your significant other....

I live in Michigan and when the Ford's built FORD Field for the Lions....I was like. WOW....this place is fabulous. Then, I had the opportunity to see a game in the brand new Jerry Jones World of Cowboys Stadium. That was EPIC. I was like..."GET the F....OUT OF HERE....Hope my analogy cleared it up for you.....
Man I nearly p....d myself, yes pay pal does help!!!! It doesn't help when I work from home though. At any rate, my wife's brother is in on the build also so I will deliver my real expensive stuff there. In regards to your analogy, yes it sure did. I will certainly check out the section as well as the link you suggested.

One thing is for sure, this is going to be quite a long road for me. As Ive said, I have no real knowledge on this sort of stuff so I just am winging it. I have decided to start with the water cooling components first b/c I figured they are the least likely to be upgraded by the time I start the build. I have no idea where to go from there but will work it out. Thanks again for your help and as I am from Australia, I am not so much into NFL but definitely know what you meant.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

I'
And yes... money adds up.....I'm into current build for about $6,500

Wanna see an EPIC build.... look at Darlene's Stretch build

http://www.overclock.net/t/1326148/nzxt-phantom-820-stretched-limo-edition-build-log/810
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy gggggggggggooooooooooddddddddddddd

That is so cool. That thing must be like over 10k for sure.

Now in regard to your great advice, I got a little lost there with the technical stuff but can tell you I am planning 2 x 560s and 1 or 2 x 420s with a dual pump (single) loop. 1 x 250mm res. Eventually I will have quad GPUs at which point may even decide to go for another loop but at this stage just a single loop and dual GPUs.

I assume that Phanteks are the brand so I will check them out. Delta i low is a brand so I will check that out also. I basically want a fan and res set up that will give me what everyone wants I guess and that's performance and silence.

Thanks again for the feedback, I will however check out the case you advised me on.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy gggggggggggooooooooooddddddddddddd

That is so cool. That thing must be like over 10k for sure.

Now in regard to your great advice, I got a little lost there with the technical stuff but can tell you I am planning 2 x 560s and 1 or 2 x 420s with a dual pump (single) loop. 1 x 250mm res. Eventually I will have quad GPUs at which point may even decide to go for another loop but at this stage just a single loop and dual GPUs.

I assume that Phanteks are the brand so I will check them out. Delta i low is a brand so I will check that out also. I basically want a fan and res set up that will give me what everyone wants I guess and that's performance and silence.

Thanks again for the feedback, I will however check out the case you advised me on.
The Enthoo Primo is awesome, also check out the Corsair 900D.

The delta he means is the greek letter Δ, which we use to mean difference from ambient temp in the case of PC cooling.
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpPrism View Post

The Enthoo Primo is awesome, also check out the Corsair 900D.

The delta he means is the greek letter Δ, which we use to mean difference from ambient temp in the case of PC cooling.
Got it thanks for that. I am starting to understand there is no real BEST fan for the build. This looks to be much more detailed than I imagined. Even with the rad. Thanks again for the info.
 
#15 ·
i had almost no clue when i started researching water cooling. i read everything i could. read build logs, and tutorials, the water cooling gallery posts, just anything i could find. if i didnt know something, i googled until i found the answer. i dont think i asked a single question until i wanted to upgrade. i have asked 2 people 2 different questions and both questions pertained to using 1 or both of the pumps i have being delivered next week.
water cooling isnt hard. you just need to research to be informed. the hard part about water cooling is to stop buying more parts.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

i had almost no clue when i started researching water cooling. i read everything i could. read build logs, and tutorials, the water cooling gallery posts, just anything i could find. if i didnt know something, i googled until i found the answer. i dont think i asked a single question until i wanted to upgrade. i have asked 2 people 2 different questions and both questions pertained to using 1 or both of the pumps i have being delivered next week.
water cooling isnt hard. you just need to research to be informed. the hard part about water cooling is to stop buying more parts.
I agree, the best way to learn water cooling in my opinion is to lurk these forums and other ones,
tongue.gif
and also reading review sites such as Martin's Liquid Lab.

There are some times when asking a question is necessary, though, as you said.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

Yes I hear you, I completely agree with the case change. My initial choice was the TH10 but was a bit hesitant about the dual front face. really wanted sleek and simple not too big like the STH10 but the specs I have provided do not reflect such a case. It really will have to be the TH10. TBH I am not that intent on having the 560 x 2 and a 420, I just really want to use 140s and have an extremely reliable, well cooled, fast and amazing looking PC. I am open to suggestion. As a beginner I have been bombarded with info and from what I have read, the bigger the rad, or should I say the surface area, the better the system. Obviously this would depend on what it is I plan on cooling and with my specs, seems like a lot. Water blocks and so on would be for a different section but I am deciding on whether to cool my ram or not??

Sorry to be a pain but you mentioned you agreed with Jakusonfire. I am a little confused. He says "I often wonder why people don't just use low cost low speed fans. 8 on each rad and leave it at that" I took this to mean on a 560 4 on the font and 4 on the back, push pull. Then you mention push pull is not worth it. Can you explain what this means.

Thanks
I'm sorry, I misread his post. I see what he's saying tho, just go with low cost low speed yate loons. I was thinking just go with push OR pull with that much rad space.

The STH10 will fit 2 560's in the lower chamber no problem. But the upper chamber fits 480s no problem. Could also do a 120-480 up front in the flex bays, or use a top drop in mount for a up to 480 with the 120mm extended top. I was mainly wanting to point out, that you need to use a triple 140 or 120 rad in one of the chambers for room of the PSU.

You also must factor in the pumps. Best way is to go tube res with a attached pump, like Aqualis or Photon w D5. Wish I would have. Probly still will. Which reminds me, I need to make a thread bout something.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaQ View Post

The STH10 will fit 2 560's in the lower chamber no problem. But the upper chamber fits 480s no problem. Could also do a 120-480 up front in the flex bays, or use a top drop in mount for a up to 480 with the 120mm extended top. I was mainly wanting to point out, that you need to use a triple 140 or 120 rad in one of the chambers for room of the PSU.

You also must factor in the pumps. Best way is to go tube res with a attached pump, like Aqualis or Photon w D5. Wish I would have. Probly still will. Which reminds me, I need to make a thread bout something.
Thanks for that. I have 2 D5 pumps along with the Bitspower Matte black pump kits and dual mod top. I plan on doing a 250 add on above one of the pump and most likely mount it on a h bracket above the rad on the lower chamber. I will however need to put some grills on. May I ask you a question?? I assumed that 2 x 560s and 1 or 2 x 460s is better than 3 x 480s and 1 x 360. What I am saying is that using 140s is better than 120s. I realise that the STH10 cannot do this the way I want so I am probably going to go for the TH10. So my question is, if you had an option of choosing between the STH10 and the TH10 and any radiator options, 560s or 480s which would you go. And the next question is, can I possibly have 2 x 560s in the top of the STH10?

Sorry about the confusion, but thanks for your response.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

3 x480 + 1x 360 is a bit more area than 2x 560 + 1x 420 almost the same.

just add the lengths
480 + 480 + 480 + 360 = 1800
multiply by width of rad/fan 120
1800 x 120 = 216000

560 + 560 + 420 = 1540 x140 = 215600

of course take fans into consideration depending on performance or noise.
Now this is why I joined, because a rookie like me can learn a thing or 2. Thanks for that, it makes a lot of sense.
 
#22 ·
I was just thinking a moment ago about these radiators and sizes. I really think I need to get back to basics and what I mean is think about exactly what it is I am cooling first and then decide on what I NEED before throwing numbers around. Yes, I know, or should I say I have heard that it is always better if possible to get bigger rads so the surface area being cooled is bigger and hens a colder system. That being said, I really think I should give you an idea on what it is I am cooling before I go any further. I would like to cool my 4960x, 8 sticks of ram, MOBO, Aquaero 6 and 2 x either Titans or 780tis. I will be upgrading to quad down the track. Oh yeh, obviously over clocking it. I'll be hoping to run it on 4.5 - 4.7 all the time and do a benchmark on over 5 for the hell of it. So I guess now you guys understand now why I am wanting the 560s. But I would like to know, with the specs on cooling, is what I am looking at ok (3 x 560s and 1 x 420). I suppose once I get the feedback then I will be happy to get that out of the way. BTW I am currently looking at the Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper 560mm - 4 Port or the Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 560 with the 420 undecided yet. Also the fans have not yet been decided yet. I have been on martins liquid lab but not much in the way of 140 reviews. Anyway, sorry to make it so long, i just thought to give you all the details.
Thanks again
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

3 x480 + 1x 360 is a bit more area than 2x 560 + 1x 420 almost the same.

just add the lengths
480 + 480 + 480 + 360 = 1800
multiply by width of rad/fan 120
1800 x 120 = 216000

560 + 560 + 420 = 1540 x140 = 215600

of course take fans into consideration depending on performance or noise.
140s provide 99.81% rad area.... can't get much closer than that
smile.gif


Three things to take into account....

1. The 140s require 11 fans to the 120s 15 fans ....double if push pull
2. There is less dead space behind the 140s fan motors
3. Some cases provide mounting for both 120 and 140mm fans and when using 10mm, the mounting plate blicks a good part of the air flow area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

I would like to cool my 4960x, 8 sticks of ram, MOBO, Aquaero 6 and 2 x either Titans or 780tis. I will be upgrading to quad down the track. Oh yeh, obviously over clocking it. I'll be hoping to run it on 4.5 - 4.7 all the time and do a benchmark on over 5 for the hell of it. So I guess now you guys understand now why I am wanting the 560s.

But I would like to know, with the specs on cooling, is what I am looking at ok (3 x 560s and 1 x 420). I suppose once I get the feedback then I will be happy to get that out of the way. BTW I am currently looking at the Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper 560mm - 4 Port or the Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 560 with the 420 undecided yet. Also the fans have not yet been decided yet. I have been on martins liquid lab but not much in the way of 140 reviews. Anyway, sorry to make it so long, i just thought to give you all the details.
Thanks again
4960 = 265 watts @ 5.0 / 1.45 v
T80 Ti = 325 watts OC'd ( 650 for 2, 1300 watts for 4)
MoBo = 40 watts
RAM = 5 watts (40 w for 8 sticks)
Aquaero = dunno, say 20 watts
Double Pumnp = 36 watts

Total = 1051 watts for 2 GFX , 1701 for 4

As a minimum, to allow for the fact that ya won't get all that happening at same time and all ya components and WC parts radiate heat, generally look for rads to provide at least 60% of the cooling....that would be:

630 watts for 2 GFX cards
1021 watts for 4 FX cards

Numbers in ( ) are how many fans widths ya need for 2 GFX cards / 4 GFX cards

With a UT60, you get 85 watts per 140mm of rad at 1250 rpm (7.4 / 12.7)
With a UT60, you get 95 watts per 140mm of rad at 1400 rpm (6.6 / 10.7)
With a UT60, you get 122 watts per 140mm of rad at 1800 rpm (5.2 / 8.4)

That's requirements w/ one fan per fan mount....reduce by say 20% in push pull. With (3) 560s and (1) 420, you have 15 fan widths. Using the 1250 rpm fans in push with just (3) 560s would give you 1020 watts of cooling or 97% of the max heat load....moving to push pull when ya went to four GFX cards, gives ya 1234 watts or 72.5% of max heat load.

I designed my rig for 63% of max heat load with a target of 10C Delta T in push / pull but have not as yet installed the 2nd set of fans and at 1200 rpm, I have a delta T of 8.4C under Furmark
 
#24 ·
I will need to read your post a few times to fully take in all the info which I am grateful for but what I think I hear you saying is that for the moment running lets say the 2 gpus I can aim for push or pull and then when going with quad gpus install the rest of the fans for a pp. One last think is there any chance at all with this config I can have it silent?? I assume it's a big ask but this would be a big requirement for me. Thanks again for all your info it is a great help.
 
#25 ·
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