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Fans and Rads, I am confused. - Page 9

post #81 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Precisely!
In the end, slimmer rads, with low fpi count will outperform thicker ones at low speeds. Not by much, only MLL's insane tests can register a difference. But the added benefit of a slimmer rad is it allows you to use p/p which will really increase your performance, especially at low speeds,

And to further explain, I should say that most of us aim for a silent rig, which is better achieved with fans below 1000 rpm, depending on your idea of 'silent'
And at low speed, fans have less cfm, and less static pressure. So to counter this, thinner rads, with low fpi count, and p/p will increase your performance above that of a thicker rad. It's just too hard for slow fans to push air through thick rads with thight fpi., and the air moving through the rad rapidly becomes 'useless' for lack of a better word.


Unless you prefer performance over silence.....
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post #82 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

And to further explain, I should say that most of us aim for a silent rig, which is better achieved with fans below 1000 rpm, depending on your idea of 'silent'
And at low speed, fans have less cfm, and less static pressure. So to counter this, thinner rads, with low fpi count, and p/p will increase your performance above that of a thicker rad. It's just too hard for slow fans to push air through thick rads with thight fpi., and the air moving through the rad rapidly becomes 'useless' for lack of a better word.


Unless you prefer performance over silence.....

i finally get it now, I'm off to work
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post #83 of 200
Quote:
I have to say you are right. I admit seeing the monsta 80mm and said, I need to have it but what you and the guys have said makes perfect sense. SO if I am reading correctly, and between the lines here, there really would be no point having a push pull in a build meant for silence as I will need double the fans. Well maybe not 'no point' but it is probably better to get a thinner rad with with either push or pull with good fans.

The thicker the rad the faster the fans need to go hens the more rpm and louder, not silent, a ha I get it now. Well I am certainly going for a silent build and really don't know if I can justify push pull. I meanI am completely OK with using one set of fans with the fans that have been suggested to me.

It sometimes takes me a little while to understand that what looks the best may not always perform the best, well in this case anyway. In any case I appreciate your help.

Well just see it this way:
The most important aspect is fresh air intake for better cooling. Thick rads, and high fpi reduce fresh air intake.
And giving your rads a fan sandwitch will not incrrease your noise level at all. In fact it could very well reduce your noise. A fan p/p will allow you to slow down your fans further to obtain the same cfm as a single fan set up. And double the fans, even at the same speed, will not increase your noise in any perceptible manner.
If one fan makes zero noise at 900 rpm, two fans will make zero noise twice at the same 900 rpm.

My next build will have 34 fans all running at around 950 rpm. If a single fan is silent, 34 times the silence is still silent. It just moves air 34 times more than a single silent fan

But to move a certain amount of air a single fan might have to speed up to 1200 rpm to move the same amount of a p/p does at 900 rpm.....makes sense?
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/13/14 at 1:41pm
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post #84 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

i finally get it now, I'm off to work

Work?
What is that?
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post #85 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Well just see it this way:

My next build will have 34 fans all running at around 950 rpm. If a single fan is silent, 34 times the silence is still silent. It just moves air 34 times more than a single silent fan

But to move a certain amount of air a single fan might have to speed up to 1200 rpm to move the same amount of a p/p does at 900 rpm.....makes sense?

This makes complete sense. Actually I am wrapped that I am finally understanding this. When I started I was looking at 5x560s x80mm with push or pull and now after all the comments you guys have made and advice given I think there is really only 1 way to go. Thin 560's and low rpm 140s in push/pull. It really all is clear to me now knowing this as the fans out there over 1200rpm and 60 cfm really don't interest me anymore as I will be having double the fans hens can run them half as fast or so.

When I get back from work (BTW I work for myself as a landscape gardener and from home as an e-learning designer) I will check out those links that have been suggested to me and choose and order my rads. In terms of the fans, tell me this, is there a need for PWN because I noticed the Phanek's you guys suggested are not PWM. Just asking. Then once I get all that, I think I am going to get my Aquaero 6 some mod my toys splitters / bitspower x stations and a portable psu and start figuring out how to work them all.

You mentioned work, what's that, yep I know, I hate it especially today as in Melbourne it 43 degrees Celsius. Cutting down some gum trees, fun fun fun NOT.
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post #86 of 200
pwm fans serve no pupose. put a load on your pc and the cpu heats up causing the fans to ramp up. the water is still the same temp it was when you started and hasnt really gotten a chance to actually absorbing heat.
you close the program that put the cpu under load. the temp of your cpu drops causing your pwm fans to slow down yet the water in your loop is still 'hot' from absorbing the heat from the cpu.

summary, they spin faster before they need to and slow down before they should.
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post #87 of 200
While 140s may seem like a good idea -- bigger fans, bigger blades, bigger rads, more cooling area, etc -- you might want to consider 120s for fan choice. The best 140s are not as good as the best 120s.
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post #88 of 200
youre right nymd. they are 'better'. follow the link i posted.
here it is again since you didnt follow it the first time.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1455994/lightbox/post/21541857/id/1792565
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post #89 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutelymods View Post

Um a little embarrassed as although I know the definition of the phrase, I am not too familiar with Darlene apart from seeing the builds done on this site. I can only assume you saying to make an offer means to get a build done by Darlene, or in fact a part made. After going through some more build logs by Darlene I can only assume that she provides a service of building PC's yes??

No by "make an offer" I JOKINGLY meant "offer to purchase".....
Quote:
In any case, I appreciate your comments and advice as always and am glad to say that after some careful reading and thinking (your links and know how helped a great deal), I have decided on the TH10 with 4 x 560s, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom, 4 or 5 case fans to go with my thermal plan of convection and slight positive pressure. I think I am going to go with the Alphacool Nexxos Series but at this point think I am going with single fans in push or pull rather than push/pull.

Puuuuurrrrfect ..... When ya add more load, can add fans in pull.
Quote:
Although I can work with cases like the MH10 and STH10 I would really like to be able to have options for the future and room to work. It's my first build so I want to have as much room as possible. In terms of the fans as I have mentioned before I am thinking either Noctua NFA14, Black Noise Black Silent Pro PK-PS or the Silverstone FHP141. I do have favourite but will see what you think. Now as you know I am taking things slow and plan to have all my parts minus the GPU and PSU purchased by mid to end April and I received another order today. A very small one at that.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1346-page6.html
Quote:
For example, the NF-P14 FLX had a relatively high airflow reading of 500 FPM in and 660 FPM out but it was last in performance and second last in noise.



Id would have looked hard at the Antec if not for the ticking noise. Remember, whach the letters on the Phanteks fans.... the one in the review is for mounting on air coolers.... (120 fan spacing for mounting holes on a 140mm fan).... you want the XP or SP if going Phanteks
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post #90 of 200
When it comes to fan control I prefer simple, as in K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stoopit)
PMW is only good if you can tie it into your water temp, as was already explained.

Most fan controllers I tried were garbage. They are all undervolters, which means they produce a lot of heat, and the more fans you have, and the slower you dial them, the more heat the controller spews out. And most of them will not handle their claimed wattage unless you have your fans full speed. The controller works harder as you slow down your fans.

The ones that set themselves apart are the Lamptron controllers but on automatic setting, they keep going up and down all the time, very annoying. They need a stepless gradual ramping up of the fans, not what they currently do.
And to make matters worst, they make my fans tick and buzz with an annoying humming sound. The humming gets worst as you add fans up.

So i found the perfect solution for me.
2150 rpm fans with a switch to flip from 12v to 5v.
At 5v, they spin silently around 950 rpm, and a simple flip of the switch will turn all my fans up for those days of extreme puting with headphones on

No heat scoring undervolting, no humming sound.

The bells and fancy light displays of some fan controllers are appealing, but I don't care for that anymore.

Edit: the 5v/12v switch trick will not work for every types of fans. There is no problems with my GT-2150 fans. But my old cheap Thermaltake case fans won't even start with the 5v on. I have to flip the switch to 12v to start them and than resume to 5v. I know there are other fans out there that need more than 5v to start up.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/13/14 at 4:41pm
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