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Fans and Rads, I am confused. - Page 10

post #91 of 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

youre right nymd. they are 'better'. follow the link i posted.
here it is again since you didnt follow it the first time.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1455994/lightbox/post/21541857/id/1792565

I followed it but was just considering the 140s.as i mentioned previously i appreciate all the links it just is heaps of info to take in. Turns out i have just decided to go for the alphacool 480s as even though i did want the 560 my case does not allow and there are better choices in 120 than 140 as per the link. Please excuse my constantly changing but the more i read the more i learn.

One last thing, what is the thickest i should go with the rads when using push pull.
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post #92 of 200
Trying to put all the info in one place for ez reference.... and with martin joining in, I'm sure it will only get better

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457426/radiator-size-estimator


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD View Post

While 140s may seem like a good idea -- bigger fans, bigger blades, bigger rads, more cooling area, etc -- you might want to consider 120s for fan choice. The best 140s are not as good as the best 120s.

I would have agreed with you .... 18 months ago..... things have flip flopped with the new 12os



Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Well just see it this way:
The most important aspect is fresh air intake for better cooling. Thick rads, and high fpi reduce fresh air intake.
And giving your rads a fan sandwitch will not incrrease your noise level at all. In fact it could very well reduce your noise. A fan p/p will allow you to slow down your fans further to obtain the same cfm as a single fan set up. And double the fans, even at the same speed, will not increase your noise in any perceptible manner.
If one fan makes zero noise at 900 rpm, two fans will make zero noise twice at the same 900 rpm.

My next build will have 34 fans all running at around 950 rpm. If a single fan is silent, 34 times the silence is still silent. It just moves air 34 times more than a single silent fan

But to move a certain amount of air a single fan might have to speed up to 1200 rpm to move the same amount of a p/p does at 900 rpm.....makes sense?

Two fans at the same speed will result in a 3dBA increase in noise .... while that is an actual doubling of sound **pressure** level, it is not a doubling on perceived noise.... to double perceived noise, ya need 10dBA.....

For example .... if we accept Phanteks work for 19dBA (that's not max but for the sake of argument as I lent out my sound meters and not here atm)....

Going from 1 to 2 would be 22 dBA
Going from 2 to 4 would be 25 dBA
Going from 4 to 8 would be 28 dBA
Going from 8 to 16 would be 31 dBA
Going from 16 to 32 would be 34 dBA

30 dBA is equivalent to a quiet bedroom at night
40 dBA is equivalent to a library

if ya interested in more about sound....

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 1/13/14 at 5:28pm
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post #93 of 200
Double post
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post #94 of 200
Well, all I can say is that I hooked up one of my fans at 5v for 950 rpm and could not hear it at all unless I put my ear next to it. Only sound was from the PSU. Than I hooked up 16 fans to two rads on the desk, all at 5v, or 950 rpm. Still no sound at all, unless I stuck my ear to them. Only sound again was from PSU fan.

Not very scoentific, I know, but that's my experience.
At around 1100 rpm, I could start to hear a fan noise.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/13/14 at 6:49pm
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post #95 of 200
Like I said .... 16 fans is equivalent to (31 dBA) your bedroom at night .... that should be very quiet ..... unless ..... er ..... just how loud is your bedroom at night ? nevermind, I don't wanna know smile.gif
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post #96 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Like I said .... 16 fans is equivalent to (31 dBA) your bedroom at night .... that should be very quiet ..... unless ..... er ..... just how loud is your bedroom at night ? nevermind, I don't wanna know smile.gif

LOL

What was that jack. tongue.gif
post #97 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpPrism View Post

LOL

What was that jack. tongue.gif
Yeah, what was that?
Is he making fun of my girl's snoring?
Cuz if my fans are as loud as her, I need ear plugs just to open my browser. smile.gif

I don't know if he is mocking my girl or if he is mocking my fans.
You better respect my fans buddy, or else.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/13/14 at 7:25pm
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post #98 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Yeah, what was that?
Is he making fun of my girl's snoring?
Cuz if my fans are as loud as her, I need ear plugs just to open my browser. smile.gif

I don't know if he is mocking my girl or if he is mocking my fans.
You better respect my fans buddy, or else.

That's right, it's not ok to mock the fans (only the fans). tongue.gif
post #99 of 200
Okay, here is my problem with the 140mm rads and fans.

If you move from 120.1 to 120.2 rads and fans, you basically double your cooling power, or you increase it by 100%.
Same if you double your fan rpm, you will more or less double your cooling power, or increase it by 100%.

But not so if you move from 120.1 rad and fan to 140.1 rad and fan. You will increase your rad area by 36%, yet you will likely not see more than 10% increase in cooling power, if even that.

This sounds to me like not such a good idea in the end.

The way to really verify this would be comparing a 140.3 rad with a 120.4 rad since they basically have the same surface area. Assuming they both use top performing fans. I bet you the girlfriend's make-up bag that the 120.4 comes out way ahead of the 140.3.

And to OP, I don't know with which case you are going. But keep in mind in my STH10, I can put two 120.4 rads up top and bellow and still have room for the PSU and slim front bay devises. But with two 140.4 rads, top and bottom, you won't have room for a PSU, and probably no room for anything up front either.
Also, keep in mind that at a given RPM, 140 fans will likely be noisier than the 120 fans. This is due mainly to the fact that the tip of the 140 fan blades are moving faster throught air.
I'd say about 36% faster, which will be noisier.
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post #100 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Trying to put all the info in one place for ez reference.... and with martin joining in, I'm sure it will only get better

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457426/radiator-size-estimator
I would have agreed with you .... 18 months ago..... things have flip flopped with the new 12os

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Two fans at the same speed will result in a 3dBA increase in noise .... while that is an actual doubling of sound **pressure** level, it is not a doubling on perceived noise.... to double perceived noise, ya need 10dBA.....

For example .... if we accept Phanteks work for 19dBA (that's not max but for the sake of argument as I lent out my sound meters and not here atm)....

Going from 1 to 2 would be 22 dBA
Going from 2 to 4 would be 25 dBA
Going from 4 to 8 would be 28 dBA
Going from 8 to 16 would be 31 dBA
Going from 16 to 32 would be 34 dBA

30 dBA is equivalent to a quiet bedroom at night
40 dBA is equivalent to a library

if ya interested in more about sound....

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm


I see this table posted a lot for some reason. But what does it actually indicate?
Pretty much that if you put 140mm fans on an open air 140mm heatsink they will nearly always work better than 120mm fans. That should be no surprise. The fact that any 120mm fans at all are in the top group should be a surprise.
"Thermalright Archon heatsink -- It's a good performer like most Thermalright CPU heatsinks, and it can fit very large fans. It is also quite responsive to the size of fan used due to its big mating surface area for the fan. Given the same RPM, for example, a 140mm fan always results in lower temperature than a 120mm fan. For a fan test platform, this is as it should be."

This is very airflow biased testing, as is demonstrated by the Corsair AF fans outperforming their SP counterparts. The AF fans also appear to cool better for the same RPM than a Scythe GT at some speeds. Does this mean they will make good enclosed radiator fans? Maybe, but it should be viewed with suspicion to my mind.


Does it show a big change? Not that I can make out. It shows Phantecs make a nice quiet, air flow focused 140mm fan, but even it is outperformed by the Corsair AF140 at the same speeds.

Yes a 140mm rad should outperform a 120mm rad all things being equal. However its still true that 120mm fans overall come in a bigger range and are more refined or specialised to task.
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